Leadership, Delegation, and Building a Thriving Business with Naama Zusman

In this episode of Success Leaves Clues Podcast, our guest is Naama Zusman, executive coach, leadership consultant, entrepreneur, and organizational development expert who helps leaders and business owners unlock sustainable growth through strategic leadership, effective delegation, and purposeful decision-making. Drawing from her experience coaching executives, entrepreneurs, and teams, Naama shares practical insights on overcoming the challenges of scaling a business, letting go of the need to do everything yourself, building trust within your team, and creating systems that support long-term success. We also explore the mindset shifts required to transition from operator to leader, the importance of charging based on value, avoiding burnout, and developing the confidence to grow both personally and professionally. Whether you're an entrepreneur, executive, coach, or business owner looking to scale with intention, this conversation is packed with actionable strategies for leading effectively while building a business that can thrive without depending on you for everything.

You can find her on:
https://www.instagram.com/naamazusman/
https://www.naamazusman.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/naama-zusman/
https://www.threads.com/@naamazusman

Email: info@naamazusman.com

Transcript

Naama Zusman 0:00

Well, I think it is walking my my walking my talk because I help people who are maybe, you know, they they they trade their time for their paycheck or the energy and capacity and they want to have that time back. And so I I think that's how I walk my my talk by really thinking about what is the kind of life I want to live.

Davis Nguyen 0:28

Welcome to Success Leaves Clues, the podcast where we interview business owners on how they built their businesses and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is David Swain, and I'm a business coach and a founder of Purple Circle, where we help business owners achieve their first six-figure, seven-figure, and eight-figure year, all without sacrificing their quality of life. Before becoming a business coach and before founding Purple Circle, I started to scale up several seven and eight-figure coaching businesses and have been a consultant at several businesses doing over $100 million each, including stuff that are publicly listed and doing over a billion dollars each. In every episode of the podcast, you're gonna learn lessons that took far yet years to learn, and you'll be able to learn that in there. No matter if you're a new business owner or an established business owner, every episode is gonna give you the clues in order to elevate your business.

Pedro Stein 1:12

Welcome to Six Das Leaves Clues Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today I'm joined by Naama Zuzman, a aliven career coach who has been her career witnessing countless people live by other people's rules, choosing paths that aren't fully aligned, and quietly wondering, is this it? Naama's mission is to help people answer the call off their hearts, trust their own wisdom, and pursue the work and experiences that bring deep fulfillment rather than just external validation. Her coaching supports clients through some of life's boldest moves, leaving behind a 10-year career for something new, transitioning into a new industry, starting a business, or simply showing up as their whole authentic self at work without apology. Nama builds the resilience her clients need to ride the natural evolution of their lives and careers, proving that small and big leaps of faith become possible when you finally stop following everyone else's rules. Welcome to the show, Nama.

Naama Zusman 2:12

Thank you, Pedro.

Pedro Stein 2:14

Yeah, um, great to have you. Okay, and I'd love to rewind a bit because every coach has that moment.

Naama Zusman 2:27

You know what? I think it was a lot of small moments. I don't think there was this one moment. Um and I think it was the small moments when I realized like I really do have a freedom to create what I want, flexibility, agency over my time, and obviously the the ability to create valuable, tangible outcomes for for people. So I mean I feel very I feel uh very privileged that I get to do this work and and this is my the and this is my my work that I that I can earn a living truly as much as it sounds cliche doing what I love.

Pedro Stein 3:19

Okay. We were talking before uh the podcast for you. You started in 2017, right? So and I'd love to understand how that leap went, right? That leap of faith when you started your own business. From it usually it started with advice giving in the coaching space, it started with, you know, uh kind of organic, natural, we're we're testing waters, I'm helping people to you know what I'm building a real business around this, right? So when did you felt like that was this was a real business? Was it the first invoice? Was it the first paying client? You know, when you you realize, okay, this is actually something there's actually something happening that is not just, you know, uh testing waters anymore.

Naama Zusman 4:02

Yeah, I think um the day I took a loan from the bank um to pay my very first kind of business mindset coach, that was the day I made a commitment that this is real and I'm gonna stick to it, and it's not a hobby or something that's nice to do on the side. Um so really kind of making that statement towards myself and obviously and my uh my surrounding and uh you know my my partner and the bank.

Pedro Stein 4:43

Hmm. That's interesting. Like that's uh that's what I call commitment, right? We're talking about taking a loan to pay for a professional, a mindset coach, to help you through the the journey you're currently in, right? Uh was it too scary to take that loan? I mean, can you walk us through how that feeling went?

Naama Zusman 5:05

No, uh to be honest, somehow it wasn't so scary. I mean, of of course there was there were scary parts about it, but I think I had this inner conviction that it will be fine, that um it will work out. Um and there was something really exciting about it, you know, about betting on myself and giving myself the permission to invest in myself and what I want and my dreams. Um and I think you know, when you when you take a coach or a mentor and you invest in in something like this, you are by taking that, that's the first step, right? That's the first step to uh telling yourself I'm in it, you know, I'm I'm gonna go full in.

Pedro Stein 5:58

It's like you have your back against the wall, it's all it's all in or nothing right now, right? You it's almost like pushing yourself to do something. Sometimes we gotta we kind of need someone to do that for us, sometimes we do our ourselves, as you already know, right? You're a life coach and all that. Now, I'm curious about one thing, because in the early days of coach him, I coach myself too, right? Uh sometimes we're trying to help everyone, right? And eventually we start noticing some patterns of people we like to work the most with. Sometimes it's a demographic, sometimes it's just behavior, right? The type of people we wanted to work with. So after you got rolling, who are the people that kept showing up? You know, now the ones you realize, okay, this is my tribe, this is the people I serve.

Naama Zusman 6:45

Well, you mentioned uh COVID uh before we started recording this podcast. And in COVID, I did notice a pattern of people who come to me, you know, they're unsatisfied with their jobs, they want to do something more fulfilling, um, something that's more maybe aligned with their values, something that allows them to live the life they want to live. Um, and so I did notice that pattern, and I did notice like, yes, this is really what lights me up. Um, supporting these types of transformations and these type of people who want to make a change. Um, and and that is also kind of where I've been so many times. So I felt I also had the life experience to back it up.

Pedro Stein 7:37

Yeah, sometimes I wonder, right? Um, at least in when I have some like when I was in kindergarten and I go to high school and I go to college, and sometimes I look at these people like right beside me, and they it seems like they have all figured out, right? Uh, and I'm like turning turning 40, and sometimes they even wonder like, is this something I'm going to do? Is this something happening? So it's interesting that I'm not alone. I'll put it simple like that. We still have people that are figuring it out, right? And it's normal to do so. Now, I'm curious about one thing, um, which is, and I'd love to play to have an exercise with you, basically. It's like I'd love to pretend I'm your ideal client profile, right? I am a guy that still wants to make a change, I'm still not satisfied, right, with my lifeslash career choices. Okay, so I'm I'm your avatar, so let's let's put it like that. And um, first of all, how would I be able to find you, Nama?

Naama Zusman 8:37

I mean, marketing-wise, either on social media, I think that is my main um uh main place where people find me to begin with. Um, I also get people who find me on Google search. Um, and finally, word of mouth. So one of these three would probably be one of the ways you'd find me.

Pedro Stein 9:04

Okay. So I I was browsing the web, as the old people say, like me, right? And I eventually would found you through SEO, right? Google, or even social media, um LinkedIn, Instagram, you name it. Or maybe someone told me, hey Pedro, you gotta meet Nama, right? A referral, a word of mouth. And I was like, okay, so I reach out to you in the same exercise. I'm still your avatar, and I'm like, hey Nama, how does it look like to work with you? Right. So we went through the sales process. Let's simply put there is a lineman, okay. Um, and you may have different offers. We can talk a little bit about that. But uh what I would love to do is for you to walk me through how does it look like to work with your business, right? And what are the potential outcomes I can expect out of it.

Naama Zusman 9:58

Yeah, well, I have different um different services um or products, so it really depends. But um, assuming that you're talking about one-to-one coaching, um, then we would work together for six months where um we'll have a kickoff session, which is 90 minutes, and the rest are 50 minutes. Um, and I kind of obviously one-to-one is always going to be tailored and personalized to you, but I follow a very kind of rough journey where I divide our work together into three phases. Where the phase first phase is explore, where we will explore you, kind of who you are in life and in work, what you want out of life, what you want out of um out of work, explore explore your values, your skills, your strength, your passions, um, what's really important for you to experience in life and in work, and so on. And so by the end of that phase, we have this kind of blueprint of you. This is who you are, and this is gonna be our North Star for the rest of our work together, and it's gonna help us make decisions um and kind of carve out next steps uh that are aligned with your blueprint. The second phase is um is the dream phase where we kind of dream all career possibilities, um the sky is the limit, we brainstorm, and we I always encourage this point. I always encourage clients to not limit themselves because even if something is objectively, let's say, not realistic, um then we're gonna look about we're gonna look at what is it about this desired career that really attracts you. And so we can always kind of glean more information out of that and then um see what possibilities are out there uh that are maybe more realistic. And and so by the end of this phase, we'll have some ideas, we'll have some uh possibilities that we kind of will um judge against your North Star, your blueprint, what is the most aligned, um, and so on. And then finally, the great phase is really about testing ideas, about seeing which career path is the most kind of interesting for you to follow, most aligned, and then we build a plan uh to bridge the gap between where you're at and where you want to be. So that is kind of the journey. It's uh I usually spread it over six months where we have sessions every two weeks because I really think that this process needs a bit of time, it needs breathing space. Yes, we can have weekly sessions, but in my experience, clients need the time to kind of digest and allow space for the coins to drop. And also a lot of my clients do have a full-time job and maybe other life responsibilities, so you know they do need to, it needs to also be sustainable for them.

Pedro Stein 13:10

Okay, interesting. Uh, you mentioned one-on-one and different offers, right? I assume, and this is I shouldn't assume things, right? So that's why I'm gonna ask. Do you have a one-to-many component component? Do you have a group setting? I'm curious about the the different offers. Just I had I have a sense of things.

Naama Zusman 13:29

Yeah, so I currently have um I have a signature workshop called Your Inner Compass, and that's a two-part uh workshop. So they're two sessions consecutive weeks. Um, every session is an hour and a half, and it's really about the fundamentals of if you want to make a change or if you're at this crossroads or you're starting to think about change and you're not sure. It's basically about teaching you the tools of my own framework to navigate crossroads and transitions, make decisions, trust your wisdom, so on. So that is uh one too many. Um, I had I already ran it um I think about four or five times, and uh each time I had about a hundred, a hundred and twenty participants. So that's that I have a group coaching program called Start Your Thing, and this is specifically for people who want to start their thing, whether it's a business, a side hustle, a creative pursuit, and and so that's a bit separate from one-to-one because one-to-one can be the person who wants to start a business and the person who wants to just transition or you know go through some kind of life and career transition, so it's obviously like a little bit more wide and open, and the start your thing is specifically designed for people who want to start their thing. And then um, I have a a guide, like a PDF guide that is evergreen, and that's called Try Before You Leap.

Pedro Stein 15:06

Interesting, a lot of a lot of things going on, a lot of plates moving. I love that. Okay. Now, let me ask you this because I'm curious, right? You mentioned uh you do have clients that are full-time, and I know sometimes for coaching that could be a challenge, like they have a full-time job. This is your full-time job. Let's say you want to respect some boundaries, right? You want to work like let's say nine to five, but sometimes they're not available at nine to five, and you have to, you know, have a different kind of schedule, more flexibility. So, how you navigate that for the coaches listen out there, how do you navigate that? Do you have like to you know it's a balance of things, right? Family and all that. You have a family and you have your personal life, and sometimes you don't want to take a call at 7, 6, 8 p.m. So, how to manage that? I'm curious.

Naama Zusman 15:57

Okay, and I I have to be honest, at the beginning, I took whatever I could, and I think that's important to say it because I think at the beginning you don't you're building yourself, you're building your experience, your uh credibility, um, your expertise, and you I think you need to be a bit less selective. Um at this time in my coaching, I have very firm boundaries. I don't do any evening sessions apart from the one-off, right? Like sometimes if a client has a regular session on Thursdays at 12 p.m. and one week we can't manage to reschedule it because he has a work meeting, then you know, I'm flexible enough to do the odd evening session. Uh, but like you said, I have a family, I have two kids, and also I feel like I'm I can give the most value in you know the morning, um, morning during the day rather than in the evening where I'm already, you know, finished with my day. Um so I do have those uh boundaries. I also finish work every day at 3 p.m. because I want to pick my kids from school, uh, and that is really, really important for me. And I also don't do clients on Friday at all. Uh Friday is my kind of creative day where I create content or develop new programs, and I try to have two kind of concentrated coaches, uh coaching days. So rather than like spreading them throughout the week, it works better for me to have more like back-to-back uh coaching days. So that's kind of how I work these days, where I can be more selective and really work with my own boundaries and what works best for me. But uh and of course I have the flexibility to change it and to uh honor if if someone needs to to change the session, but more or less this this is kind of how I work. And I have to say that the benefit of working with people in different time zones is that actually if I'm I'm in I bet I'm based in the UK, but if I'm working with a client in the US, um my end of the work day is usually their morning, so that works for them before work. So there is more place to play when it's um when you work with different time zones.

Pedro Stein 18:24

Interesting, but in a way, you had to earn that spot, right? You mentioned yourself. You at the start, you're just building your practice, you gotta make things work, and I love that the honesty about that. Now I'm curious about one another thing, which is kind of a hot topic, right? Um, you kind of mentioned you you had to earn your spot, and I see a lot of coaches out there with this topic specifically, uh struggling, struggling a little bit at the start, which is pricing, okay? But I'm not talking about hard numbers, it's more about the mindset behind it, right? It's a very self-forced path for the coach because his trading usually his time for uh pay, right? So, how did that look like for you? I mean, uh I've seen coaches doing pro bono free work and burning themselves out with people that are not even showing up. And I've seen coaches like charging way, way more than they should, right? So, how do you think about it today? And were there any lessons along the way that shaped how you landed where you are about pricing specifically?

Naama Zusman 19:23

Well, I think you gave to two kind of extremes, right, in the spectrum, and I think the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Um, so I actually never did any pro bono, any free sessions, even not at the beginning, because I think that when you and that's what worked for me, right? For other people, I might, you know, I'm just saying what worked for me. For other people, it might be worth it giving a few free sessions or programs. Um but I think that when you are you are pricing yourself, it's a lot about what you you're telling someone this is this is the value, I bring value. And when you're giving it for free, then there is that exchange that doesn't really happen, right? Like what what are you giving? Um and and I think of course when you're at the beginning, you need to charge less because you need to gain expertise, you need to gain experience. Um, so I think it's absolutely fine to charge much less than you will charge later. Um, but I think charge something, and that is also for the commitment of your coache, right? Of your client, because I think the moment you pay for something, it makes you more committed. If you get something for free, you're less committed, you're less invested. Um, so I think for the transformation of the person you're helping, it is better for them to pay, even if it's you know, a very discounted price.

Pedro Stein 21:01

Okay. Now let me ask you this. Um your work seems pretty hands-on, Ryanama, and um very customized to uh to an extent. Specifically about the one-on-ones. So I see a lot of coaches out there they advocate against burnout, but they're burning themselves out in the process because they're wearing all the hats, they have uh a lot of one-on-ones, right? Specifically customized. So, how do you think about capacity? You know, so don't stretch yourself too thin and get yourself burned out in the process.

Naama Zusman 21:38

Well, I think it's again seasons of life and seasons of business. And I think at the beginning of your business, you have to stretch yourself a little bit. It is, and I don't think there is another I mean, in my experience, and maybe I'm uh old school, I don't know. Uh, but I think you have to be a bit You know, you have to give a bit more at the beginning. And and and then bec and sometimes because you will have a maybe a full-time or part-time job and you build build your coaching business alongside, that's a big stretch, isn't it? Anyway. So um, and even if you don't and you're building it from scratch, you will take a bit more than you can maybe at a certain point because you have to also learn what you're able to do. Until you do it, you don't know how many coaching clients can you have a day. I have learned that I can do about four to five clients per day, not more than that. And that's my capacity. But it's learning through experience. Um I don't know. Did I answer your question?

Pedro Stein 22:52

I kind of Yeah, I I think you did. Um, I mean, first of all, you gotta understand there is a cost, especially in the beginning, right? You're gonna have to sacrifice something, right? And it's gonna be a little bit of a stretch at first. So that makes sense. The second one, which you addressed, at least as I understood, is in the big you eventually you you hit a point that you're you're gonna know more about yourself, and then you're gonna set up the boundaries. I got that right. It's something like that.

Naama Zusman 23:24

Yeah, and and also not only you know more about yourself and then you set the boundaries, if you got to that point, it also means that you have more um you have enough demand. So you can set those boundaries. I think what often happens in the coaching space, and and tell me if you agree, is that you set the boundaries a little bit too early, and then you wonder why you don't get any clients. Because you already decided that you're only gonna take clients in a certain amount uh for cer for a certain amount of money which is quite high, maybe to for a beginner. Um, and you already decided that you're only gonna work uh two days a week and only in the morning. I don't know. I'm just so I think that you need to build that level of demand, and um and that's where you really get to decide how you are going to work and what kind of boundaries you want to have.

Pedro Stein 24:29

Hmm. That makes sense. You kind of have to earn your spot, right? Like before you start setting up boundaries, if you have no leverage, if you if you're not well established yet, that makes sense. At least as I understood that you said that. Did that make sense?

Naama Zusman 24:45

Yeah, and I but I think of course I'm not saying that you need to like work every day till 2 a.m. and uh, you know, sleep and not sleep, and like you know, I'm not saying that, but I I'm saying like I think you get the more experience you let's sum it up like this the more experience you get you gain, the more selective you can be. That's how I see it. The more experience you gain, the more selective you can be.

Pedro Stein 25:13

Right. So the truth again is in the middle. Like I gave you first examples, radical examples. You're like, yeah, I think it's we we kind of have to find like a balance of things. Okay. Now, shifting gears for a second, um, let's talk about future, right? I'm curious about where you're taking all this, looking ahead. Where do you see the business going? You know, are you thinking about hiring, scaling? Is there an ex step you're excited about?

Naama Zusman 25:38

Yeah, so um hiring is uh something I'm considering, I'm still considering. Uh, for for me, I want I want my business to keep growing, obviously, but I also don't want to be tied or, you know, I I created this business for my freedom and for my flexibility. And so I know, of course, hiring someone can help me with that. And at the same time, that's also someone to manage, right? So that is something I'm kind of still, I think, considering with myself, but I think I'm at the point where I kind of have to hire someone at some capacity. Um, the other thing I'm going to or I'm working towards is building some kind of membership community. And so actually simplifying my business model at this point where I can bring all these different offers into one place and and then you know have a one-to-many um offer.

Pedro Stein 26:44

Interesting. Okay, that's exciting. The membership. Um and also hiring, right? I I it's it's almost like we were talking about it's like you've got to sacrifice a little at the beginning again. Uh so you're gonna you're gonna have to hire and manage, but after that is done, it will pay off and you know, um actually keeping that lifestyle and even ramping up a little bit more your business. So that makes perfect sense. Now I'm curious, right? Because whenever we're aiming towards the next chapter, always something we're refining in the present, right now. So what are you currently trying to improve or tighten up in your business right now? Um you mean like my own professional uh yeah, like uh, oh, I'm developing X, Y, and Z for the membership community, or like for example, me, I'm I'm a coach too, right? So I'm developing a low-ticket top of funnel so I can uh connect with my group SATI and building a wait list. That's something I'm working on.

Naama Zusman 27:48

Now, how about you? Yeah, yeah, so I think that membership is the main thing I'm working on, and and for me, now it's about simplifying. I want I want to simplify. I want my membership to be my core offer. And then, you know, I might run start your thing, my group coaching program, once a year, maybe twice if I feel like. And I'll have maybe, I don't know, two high-paying clients or or something like that, or not more than a handful, that's for sure. So I kind of want to simplify and work towards that membership model, which I think will give me more time to create valuable content and to uh to serve people in a way that also makes it more accessible uh to more people.

Pedro Stein 28:48

Not sure if connected, but it sounds like there's a lot of this, the architecture you're mentioning, towards keeping a certain lifestyle and some boundaries so you can keep your personal life in check, right? While addressing the coaching side of the business and all that, but there is it's not just like growing per like just growth by growth, it's just like uh in very intentional growth. Did that make sense?

Naama Zusman 29:17

Yeah, absolutely. What leads my decision and my my my decisions in my business and how I kind of keep evolving it is really based on what's on my values and the life I kind of want to live. And uh my business will always have to support that. For me, like picking up my children from school is really important, and that's like a you know, that's a hard boundary. And you know, I don't want I I I don't work at weekends unless you know I have a workshop, which is you know, every now and then that's fine, but not as a regular thing. So it's really kind of honoring well, I think it is walking my my walking my talk because I help people who are maybe you know they they they trade their time for their paycheck or the energy and capacity, and they want to have that time back. And so I I think that's how I walk my my talk by really thinking about what is the kind of life I want to live, what's really important for me, what are my values that I want to make sure I keep prioritizing it, um keep prioritizing them. So that's kind of what leads my my decisions and my strategy.

Pedro Stein 30:40

Okay. Now let's have a fun exercise for a moment here. Let's pretend a little bit of science fiction, okay? Let's pretend we have a time machine in front of you. You have the opportunity to go back to 2017 when you started your own coaching business, right? Uh and you can give yourself one piece of business advice that you know now that you wish you knew back then. What would that be?

Naama Zusman 31:07

I think it would be be scrappy. Like just do things, be scrappy, do things, don't like allow yourself to just experiment um and also don't be like shy or yeah, don't be shy to reach out to your network to really leverage your contacts because I think when I think when I look back, I think I kind of wanted to hide this part because I was just you know, was a bit shy and what would they think of me? And actually I could leverage my contacts way better at the beginning. So I think that's kind of the main thing. Be scrappy, just experiment, don't overthink and leverage your contacts, your network.

Pedro Stein 31:58

I love that. Put yourself out there, right? And um if someone listening wants to connect with your follow your work, Nama. You know, and we're gonna have all the links in the description, but where can people find you best and connect with you?

Naama Zusman 32:13

I think Instagram is the m place where I kind of hang out the most. So I would say on Instagram and email. You can email me.

Pedro Stein 32:24

Okay. You know, there were a few moments from this chat today uh that I would love to highlight, right? Uh, first of all, when we were talking about your origin story, right? When you start in coaching and you're like, well, there was no aha moment, were small moments, right, that keeping adding up. So so organic, right? So natural too. And then we moved to talking about the loan you take you took from the bank to pay the mindset coach. And one thing that really caught my attention is that I asked you if that was scary, and you're like, um, no, it was actually exciting. So it's looking at the the glass half full, right? It's not just about a leap of faith of, oh my god, what's gonna happen? It's more like this is awesome, I'm gonna make it work, I'm excited, right? So I love that. Also, when we were talking about your business and you're like onboarding uh me, right? Uh theoretically, um, you're like there is the the exploration fl phase, so you explore you, what you want, where you what you want to achieve, and the dream phase, which I love the fact you there is no ceiling in the dream phase. It's about like I think it at the end of the day it costs the same to dream small or big, right? So dream big, right? I love that. Um then we move to the the pricing bit when you mentioned the commitment, right? And I that hit really hits home. Um, because I think it if you if people have no skin in the game, it turns harder. It it becomes harder to you know ask for commitment. It's almost like if you don't respect your time and you're doing it for free, wait should they, right? At the end of the day, and it makes so easier for them to no show and all that. And I always whenever I talk about commitment and skin in the game, I always remember myself playing, you know, Texas Hotem with my buddies in college, and then it was like zero dollars, uh no stakes at the pot, and everyone was all in so courageous, right? And then if there's a dollar in the pot, the game completely changes because they got something to lose, right? So I think that's a very powerful reminder for coaches out there listening too. Now, this is my long-winded way of saying, obviously, that I appreciate what you do, and I appreciate you being here and sharing so openly today. Okay, it was great having you on.

Naama Zusman 34:54

Thanks, Pedro. It was great having you as uh as the interviewer. Thank you for the great questions and uh reflections back.

Davis Nguyen 35:03

That's it for this episode. This episode, as well as this podcast, was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help business owners elevate their business to six, seven, and eight figure years all without burning out. If you're looking to grow your business as well as get the time freedom that you are looking for, visit us at join purplecircle.com and see what we can do to help you end your business.