From Aspiration to Achievement: Career Coaching Insights with Gillian Forth

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, our guest is Gillian Forth, a passionate career coach who specializes in empowering professionals to thrive in their careers. Gillian has an extensive background in coaching and personal development, helping individuals navigate career transitions and achieve their professional goals. Tune in to learn actionable insights on career growth, leadership, and effective job strategies.

You can find her on:
https://www.thelowachiever.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillian-forth-coach/
https://www.instagram.com/thelowachiever/

Transcript

Gillian Forth 0:00

You know, coaching, especially I think in the neurodivergent space, can inadvertently lean toward unsafe environments in environments that are going to perpetuate burnout. And so when I'm working with clients, we're definitely looking at that environment and seeing what needs what's within their control and what isn't within their control. Because coaching it we can't fix a workplace environment that is toxic or unsafe.

Davis Nguyen 0:30

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 1:01

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro and I'm joined by Jillian Forth, who helps organizations support neurodivergent employees by moving from uncertainty to clear, capable action. She works with HR leaders and disability or accessibility teams through practical education and advisory support that your people can actually use in real workplace moments. Her approach is collaborative, direct, and grounded in how workplaces actually function at addressing systems and expectations that were never designed with cognitive diversity in mind, you know. So Gillian builds real internal capability so your teams can stop guessing and start responding with confidence when situations get complex or sensitive. Welcome to the show, Gillian.

Gillian Forth 2:01

Thank you. Thank you for that intro, Pedro. It's great to be here.

Pedro Stein 2:04

Well, I only have you to blame, you know. That's totally your fault, the introduction. And talking about the introduction, I always like to rewind a bit, you know, getting back to the origin story. So before we get into what you do now, Jillian, I'm curious how this actually started. So, what was going on in your life when coaching became more than just an idea?

Gillian Forth 2:30

Yeah, that's a great question. I uh I think coaching was thrust upon me in a way, and I'm grateful for that. I I've spent uh you know, I spent a career in the nonprofit sector, in uh the social justice space and uh in various different types of roles as a facilitator, as a speaker, working in operations and training and development. And then I entered a role where coaching was part of it. And I had never coached before. So I was very much building the plane as I flew it and figuring it out. And uh, and so I was coaching specifically neurodivergent individuals, so autistic folks transitioning into the workplace, ADHDers transitioning into the workplace, and also working with their managers at the same time to support that onboarding. So it was a big, big learning curve, and that led to me pursuing formal education uh through uh International Coaching Federation training and education and uh and ultimately uh becoming credentialed. So it's uh it's been a journey. I uh I like I said, I had coaching kind of thrust upon me, and I've I've been loving it for for five years now, uh since that uh that initial role.

Pedro Stein 3:55

Okay. And at what point did it stop feeling like a side thing or a calling and start feeling like an actual business you are responsible for? You know, because in the early days for coaching, there's a lot of testing, you know, the water try and error, and you're like, oh, was it the first invoice when you when you realize the shift happened, right? Oh, I got a business in coaching now, you know?

Gillian Forth 4:20

Yeah, yeah. That was uh about three years ago. I really uh that's when I really decided I wanted to do something on my own. And uh it was just a year ago, actually, that I uh started just doing, just doing my coaching business, coaching and consulting business. And uh, and so that's when I was like, I I want to be doing this for myself. I want to be doing this in my own way, and you know, kind of defining success and and and working with the people that I wanted to work with and and taking that kind of leadership and initiative in in my own space. So it's uh it's been you know kind of a journey of milestones, but uh it's it's been a great year. It's been a lot, a lot of learning. It's always, you know, kind of figuring out what's next, what's important, trial and error. And uh yeah, I'm looking forward to you know what what comes what comes next.

Pedro Stein 5:20

Sounds exciting. Okay, now at this point, I usually ask people about how they niche down, right? Or even if they did that, but we already passed that mark. You already told me that it's about a neurodivergent, okay. But I want to understand what's the connection between your coaching and why did you start it helping them? Like this is specific demographic.

Gillian Forth 5:42

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So I was diagnosed 17 uh with a learning disability, and uh, and I'm uh a late realized, late-identified uh autistic woman. And uh, and so it's it's kind of interesting though, because I started working with autistic folks and ADHDers and other neurodivergent folks uh before I really understood the space and was really operating within the space. So I was learning a ton about neurodiversity and the different kinds of challenges within the workplace while I was learning about my own identity and where I fit into this. And I found such an incredible community, such an incredible group of people, and and was learning, again, simultaneously about myself. And that's really where my passion for coaching grew from. So it was really my passion for neurodiversity, neuroinclusion, and the neurodiversity uh justice movement that has fueled my passion for coaching and working in this space. And uh, and so it was, you know, it's part of my identity, but when I was, you know, kind of thrust into this environment, into this community, that's where it was like, oh wow, you know, the the the pieces all kind of came together at the same time. Coaching and the neurodiversity justice space just made everything make sense for me.

Pedro Stein 7:13

Oh, I'm glad I asked that. And the reason I'm glad is, and you can correct me here if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're serving the past Jillian. It's like, oh, I've been there and done that, you know, and I know where the pitfalls are, I know where the trouble starts, you know. Would you say that as like right or wrong, or am I too far off here?

Gillian Forth 7:32

Absolutely, absolutely. I myself, you know, it was really only in finding this place that I was able, that I've been able in hindsight to see, you know, retrospect. Oh, okay, yes, I experienced that burnout cycle that's so common with uh with ADHDers and neurodivergent folks. And and so I have gone through these things without the language, without the tools that that are uh becoming you know more well-known, more developed. I'm you know, part of building, you know, different kinds of frameworks and and understandings. And so absolutely, you know, kind of thinking back to my own experiences and what what I've been through in specifically in the workplace, but also in school and educational spaces, and how I can bring that to the way that I support others.

Pedro Stein 8:27

Hmm, interesting. Okay, now let's zoom out for a second, okay. If someone ends up working with you today, how do they usually find their way to you in the first place? Like, let's picture past Jillian trying to find present Jillian.

Gillian Forth 8:45

Well, I mean, there's the classic just kind of Google, you know, you're you're looking for a coach, you're looking at ADHD or autism support resources. Uh, you know, maybe someone uh just recently became diagnosed. That's that's also quite common. I work with adults who uh who are just navigating uh a recent diagnosis and want to better understand the label, better understand the identity. And and so I work with a variety of different organizations and you know, word of mouth is is really powerful as well. Uh, just being, you know, being top of mind for some people, it's uh that's that's been a great, a great way to meet clients. And uh and you know, being out in the community, being in the neurodivergent space, uh, that's uh, you know, I'm just always coming across different people with different stories, looking for different kinds of support. And uh, and so it's it's a variety of ways, whether it's LinkedIn is common. Uh I I do um publish different like newsletters and uh blog posts and things like that. Uh, I really enjoyed the thought leadership in the space and enjoying other thought leaders in the space. And uh, and so people sometimes find me through that work as well.

Pedro Stein 10:04

Okay. And on a side note, right, they're looking for you or help in that space, and they Google it, and it pops up the low achiever, right? That's the name of your business. So, can you expand on that? Walk me through the the the why did you have to pick that name specifically? I find that very interesting.

Gillian Forth 10:23

Yeah, the low achiever. You know, for for any neurodivergent folks listening, it might even just kind of make sense. It, you know, it just kind of clips. I meet so many neurodivergent people who are like like similar to your response, like, oh, I love that, the low achiever. It like resonates, it you know, it hits deeply because it's often a label that is assigned to us, you know, whether it's as you know, children or uh into adulthood, that we're, you know, we have so much potential. If only we could focus, if only we could, you know, uh pay attention or uh get organized, you know, get ourselves together. That's you know a common, common thing that I'm hearing from folks. And so this idea of being a low achiever, it's not something that people generally apply themselves. It's it's the way that you know you might hear someone describe themselves as being a high achiever. We don't hear people saying, oh, I'm a low achiever. You know, I know so many incredibly ambitious and hardworking, neurodivergent folks who are struggling with different barriers, whether it's in the workplace or their personal life, without the the tools and understanding that there are supports available, that there are different ways of doing things to self-accommodate or to pursue accommodations. And that this label, this title of low achiever is uh is one that that you know we can we can shed. And on the other side of it, it's also a bit tongue-in-cheek in that we we can define success for ourselves. And so what someone else might see as low achievement or a lack of uh accomplishments is uh it's it's subjective. We we all get to define what success looks like and what we want to accomplish, what we want to achieve in our lives, and uh and it's up to us. So we get to define that.

Pedro Stein 12:30

Like instead of judgment, we're talking about a personality trait. Like instead of trying to, you know, oh, you're a high or low achiever. No, you're owning your own true self and keep moving forward. If that made sense, something like that.

Gillian Forth 12:45

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like, what does it mean for you to move forward? You know, to be a high achiever is relative. It's you know, it we often think about it in the context of uh a career or you know, financial success, but uh there's so many different ways to acknowledge our achievements, our accomplishments, our goals, and they they may not resonate with other people, and that's okay.

Pedro Stein 13:16

Okay, now let's talk about the mechanics behind the scenes for a moment, right? So, for example, I was Googling you, someone referred me to you, like word of mouth, or even LinkedIn that you mentioned. You have some newsletters going on there. So imagine I'm being boarded, right? So, what does that experience look like from my perspective on getting to the low achiever army or you know, community? Let's put it like that.

Gillian Forth 13:44

Yeah. So I uh I'll meet with folks, and of course, our our initial conversation is really exploring what they're looking for and seeing if seeing whether there's a a good mutual fit there. I I don't believe that every coach is a good fit for every prospective client. We, you know, there are uh there's a an important factor of that kind of rapport building, that trust, the whether we're, you know, we're going to have that that fit and that match together. And so exploring what what you you're looking for, what a client's looking for, and what kind of approach they want from me as a coach, whether that's um more um more accountability oriented. Um it can also be uh you know, specific goal setting. Sometimes folks come with specific goals in mind, and uh, and so we can we can map that out together. Often we're you know, we're also kind of kicking off our engagement by exploring some of the foundational elements of well-being. So values-based goal setting, energy mapping, you know, often many of my clients are navigating a you know uh high performance burnout cycle. And uh, and so we're trying to interrupt that and promote recovery and also setting up sustainable steps, uh, sustainable strategies and uh approaches moving forward for them. So it's it's really tailored to each person, what what they are looking for, what they need, and how we can navigate that, what's within their control, because so many people come to me and you know, coaching, especially I think in the neurodivergent space, can inadvertently lean toward adapting to or being able to kind of survive in unsafe environments, in environments that are going to perpetuate burnout. And so when I'm working with clients, we're we're definitely looking at that environment and seeing what needs what's within their control and what isn't within their control, because coaching is we can't fix a workplace environment that is toxic or unsafe and unwilling to accommodate someone. And so it's it's also early on establishing what what coaching can actually provide for an individual and what they're currently experiencing.

Pedro Stein 16:23

Okay. I mean, your work seems pretty involved. We're talking about a practically a custom experience, right? From the discovery call to applying the the coaching and having the one-on-ones with your coaches and all of that. So, my question to you is because specifically in the coaching space, we see a lot of coaches wearing all the hats, right? They're they're the marketing, they're the ops, they're the sales and all of that. So, how do you think about managing your time and energy so the business doesn't start owning you? You know, so you you don't get into that burnout position again that you were trying to actually help people not to get to, you know?

Gillian Forth 17:04

Yeah, yeah, it's so important. I am incredibly mindful of my own energy, and that's because of my own disabilities and the the skills and tools that I've accumulated over the years. It's it, and I think it's I have to walk, I have to walk the talk. And uh, and so protecting my energy is it's been a learning over, you know, over my life, but certainly since my my own experience with burnout uh now, you know, almost 10 years ago. And and being a being really thoughtful about what, you know, if you've have you ever heard of spoon theory?

Pedro Stein 17:44

No, please. No, okay.

Gillian Forth 17:46

So in the disability space, lots of folks will be familiar with spoon theory, but the it's a it's a from the chronic illness uh community, actually, and then you know, has um become applicable to the larger disability community and and certainly neurodivergent folks included. And it's this idea that we only have a certain number of spoons each day, like spoons of energy is a way to look at it. Or if you're thinking about like a video game, kind of the lives that you have on uh in a certain game. And so when we enter a day, we may we may consistently have the same number of spoons or the same amount of energy, uh, but it can fluctuate. It can fluctuate throughout the day. Some things that give people spoons or energy, uh like having a shower or uh making breakfast might cost spoons for someone else. And so having spoon theory is a way to map energy proactively and to build in these accommodations and these understandings of ourselves so that we can avoid burnout. And and so how I do that very intentionally is I I mean, I'm obsessed with my my calendars and my scheduling. So I'm quite uh quite proactive and I've learned over time what things give me spoons and what things cost me spoons, and I protect my recovery and my rest uh above, you know, above everything. It's it's vital in order for me to show up in the way that I do because I can work really hard, hyper focus and and dedicate a lot of energy to something, but I can only do that if I give myself the time and space that I need to rest and recover. And so I very much, very much walk the talk and uh and it's all about protecting the things that that promote my well-being. Sleep, eat, you know, rest, social time with friends and family, and uh and getting outside, hopefully soon, enjoying some nicer weather. Uh, but uh, but that's all quite vital for me.

Pedro Stein 20:04

You know, now that's tricky, okay, at least for me. And I'm gonna give a personal example. I love the spoon theory, but for me, I felt myself in places that I feel energized in my work. That's the the now that's the problem. I'm like, okay, I have two kids, I have my wife, and all of that, and I love them, and I love spending time with them. But sometimes I had so much joy working on my project that it's it's like a two-way street. It's like it's gonna burn out me, but at the same time, I'm having a blast. So, uh, how can someone like me navigate that? You know what I'm saying?

Gillian Forth 20:44

I hear that all the time. Your your story is uh is definitely gonna resonate, I'm sure, with uh with some neurodivergent listeners and and of course uh lots of other folks, but it's uh that that uh sometimes is referred to with the hyper focus. You know, it can be it can be actually like I I think about flow, you know, the flow state that we can enter when we're passionate and engaged in the work that we love. And I see hyper focus as the evil twin. And and so flow is like, oh, you know, it's giving me energy, it's effortless, it feels really good, it's right in that zone of being just challenging enough. And we're we're curious, we're engaged, flow is just like, you know, just human joy. And then the hyper focus can be where we are zoned in on something, maybe spinning our wheels, maybe we're, you know, we might be losing track of time and going down rabbit holes, but we're not really getting anything done. And and that can be um, that can be really exhausting. But in either case, by you know, either definition, it can be about really mindfully. And intentionally observing those patterns. And so in coaching, what I often do with clients is the energy mapping. So we're looking at okay, what what times in the day do you have the most energy? Where can you intentionally be taking breaks? And you know, where is movement incorporated in your day, water, eating, things like that. And uh, and and really intentionally observing what that looks like, because it can be so easy, especially for you know ADHDers and and whatnot, to just get into those patterns and then it's like, oh, then I crash and I didn't even see it coming. So that's where coaching, having someone be able to mirror back, make those observations and point those things out and intentionally support with creating different tools and strategies to interrupt those those kinds of patterns when they do lead to exhaustion, uh, that can be incredibly helpful.

Pedro Stein 23:05

Thank you for that explanation. You know, one thing that really sets me back is like if I have awareness of being, you know, lacking on performance. If I start feeling that, that really throws me off. That's when I know I have to stop, you know. But then again, it's just me and this is not a pagro session, okay, guys? So bear with me. I'm sorry. Now I want to shift topics for a bit because you've been three years in the game, okay, and I love the pricing topic. We don't talk, we we don't have to talk about hard numbers, okay? It's more about the mindset behind it because every coach evolves on that topic. And like it's somewhat of a self-worth path. Like, am I charging enough? Am I not charging enough? And sometimes we do the scarcity calculator or something like that. Like you're looking at your calendar, a lot of empty seats, and you're like, oh, I should charge less, and then I would have every all of those seats filled in, you know. So, how do you approach that now? And what did you have to learn the hard way to get where you are right now?

Gillian Forth 24:07

Oh, yeah. So such a good question. It's I think it's an ongoing kind of mental gymnastics for sure. But uh, you know, being in the social justice space, I'm also very mindful of you know what access looks like and working with people with disabilities who may have challenges accessing employment and therefore funds. I I like to navigate my pricing with a sliding scale, with a really open, open mind of what you know, what I can, what I can offer, what I'm capable of, so that I can continue to support uh individuals who financially might otherwise not be able to access coaching. And so I I know what I want to charge per hour, what you know my time is worth as you know, as a as a great coach, I know what I can provide. And I think that's really the most fundamental is having the confidence that like I'm a great coach, that you're a great coach, and that you can support people with movement toward the goals or you know, the things that they want to move toward. And when you have that confidence and the that self-belief, it becomes a lot easier to say this is, you know, this is what this costs, and I'm willing to be flexible in certain situations so that I can really serve the communities that I want to. So it's it's a sliding scale, flexible mindset rooted in the confidence that I'm excellent at my craft and I do, you know, deserve to be compensated for that. People are capable of compensating me for that, and that I also want to remain accessible to the communities that I serve.

Pedro Stein 26:00

It's some somewhat like a mix, right? Of reality check of outcomes you can deliver to your clients, and also the mindset, trying to that imposter syndrome, that evil, you know, evil twin, like you say you said on the hyper focus theme, you know, just reminding that that hey, I actually can help people, I you know, I have my skill set, all that interesting. Okay, now looking forward a bit, Jillian, what's the direction you're aiming this business towards? You know, are you thinking more about growth, leverage, building a team, or refining what already works? You know, what feels most exciting right now?

Gillian Forth 26:40

Oh my gosh, so many things just came to mind. Um, one thing that I'm really excited about uh this year is uh, you know, first, my own ongoing professional development. So I'm you know deeply invested in ongoing learning. I'm uh part of multiple coaching communities where there's mentorship, supervision, and uh and I'm doing some advanced training this year as well in order to uh to enhance my credential as a coach. And I'm constantly doing different types of uh neurodiversity-related training as well. So learning about different systems and supports for ADHDers, for autistic folks, uh, specifically looking at the difference with women's experiences, with young people, aging, all of these things are uh are just growing so rapidly, and we're getting so much more research, so much more information. Lived experience in the communities is is just becoming a lot more widely available. And uh, and so it's a really exciting place to be in right now and to be constantly learning and absorbing. So my own professional development is is a huge focus uh for me this year and always. And uh and I want to expand into more group coaching, both in person and virtually, also from an accessibility perspective, so that more, you know, that kind of uh ripple effect, the the impact of my coaching can expand. Uh, and and so often that's that's easier to do in group coaching. And I think that group coaching is also just a really, really cool environment for neurodivergent folks to uh meet with one another, see other other people having similar experiences. There can be that acknowledgement, that validation, that understanding, and that community support and sharing of resources and strategies uh from lived experience, which is really cool. So I want to move into that group and and even team coaching space in order to multiply the impact.

Pedro Stein 28:51

Yeah, the power of the community is something that always you know strikes me as a great thing. But looking at your demographic and your ideal client profile, it sounds like it's even more powerful, right? Because must be such a lonely road sometimes to realize, hey, you have something. Sometimes people go through stuff all their life and they don't even realize they have it, right? It's like me, I'm in my 40s and I'm still trying to, hey, you know what? Do I have something here on or really or not? You know, and and and on top of it, seeing that you're not alone, right? Having a community, people that, oh, so this is something that goes on, it's not just for me. So I think that's a powerful reminder, and I can see how that would play out for the group setting. Now, even when things are going well, right, there's always something under construction. So, what's the main thing you're actively working on or trying to improve in the business now, Jillian?

Gillian Forth 29:48

Oh, that's a good question. What am I? It's I mean, I'm just constantly trying to become a better coach. It's really my craft that I'm just I I want to be able to serve my clients as best as possible. And and so I'm just always trying to improve my my framework, my approach. I'm currently really kind of noodling, if you will, or you know, rumbling with in my mind, uh a more accessible, autistic coaching framework. And so that's something that I'm really excited about. It's kind of on the side of my desk, uh, you know, it's creative. Uh, but what's been on my mind over the past few years, I love the craft of coaching and the importance of how we do our work, the ethics behind our work, and the, you know, the boundaries, the scope of what we do. And I think that there are ways that coaching can be adapted more effectively for autistic folks and for other neurodivergent folks in different ways. So right now I'm trying to figure out what that would look like, how to create a coaching structure that honors the, you know, the very real frameworks and scope and approaches of coaching, and also perhaps better accommodates and acknowledges the the unique brainwiring of specifically autistic individuals. And and so thinking about the different the ways that that could look different. And uh, yeah, so I'm I'm really excited about that.

Pedro Stein 31:40

Okay, now I have a question for you because I'm picturing the you're you're in a let's say a discovery call or like that first contact with a potential client, right? And I'm wondering here in my mind, like their main questions, right? So for example, and I'll throw just throw it out there and you can resonate with whatever works, right? Like, are there questions? Are you trying to replace common practices like a doctor or medicine, or are you giving a different route, or is this therapy, you know, that type of mentality to understand what your work really is about? I'm not sure if you get that more often than not. I'm just thinking out loud, if that doesn't work, I mean, I'm I'm all yours, you know, just trying to understand, put my head around it.

Gillian Forth 32:26

That's a great question. Absolutely. I I get that question a lot. You know, what what's the difference? You know, a lot of people that come to me have worked with therapists and uh and and different medical professionals and clinicians. And and so it's like, so what? Like, what is coaching? How is this different? I think that that is it's such a funny question within the coaching community of itself. Like, what is coaching? And uh, and so I I always start with my clients by explaining, you know, what coaching is from my perspective and how I define it as a you know a structured conversation that supports self-led learning. And so that is, you know, this this opportunity to pause, reflect, and have someone be able to mirror and observe and share those observations in order to enhance that reflection and that learning, because ultimately it is an educational experience. And and so that's where I start by differentiating between therapy or you know, different medical approaches because I am not a clinician, I am not a uh a practitioner, uh mental health or mental illness expert. And so it's important to me to share with clients as well that uh they they can bring whatever they want to coaching. And it's my responsibility as a coach to make sure that we stay within scope and that I'm referring when necessary to these other professionals who can support with clinical levels of disability or mental illness. And so I can work with folks who experience depression, anxiety, have you know trauma, and all of those types of experience. I have clients who also have bipolar, other multiple diagnoses. And that's okay when it's about my responsibility as a coach to identify when there's a clinical level of support that's needed, when someone is really struggling to show up in their life and to maintain a certain level of well-being, that I'm really holding that responsibility and referring and being able to share with the client that other supports, that uh medical professionals would would be better at navigating a certain type of challenge. Uh, because coaching can be therapeutic, but it's not therapy. And I'm not a therapist. And and so it's it can be a space for processing, it can be a space for naming and understanding emotions and how we want to move through them. Absolutely. But when we start getting into clinical levels of distress, uh, you know, really difficult uh enhanced difficulty with uh achieving a certain level of well-being, that's when, you know, it's it's my responsibility as a coach to uh to be referring. So I'm really clear with my clients about that and what those differences are.

Pedro Stein 35:40

Okay. And Jillian, before we close this out, if someone resonated with what you shared and wants to follow your work, where should they go?

Gillian Forth 35:48

They can find me at theloachiever.com. I can uh I can also be followed found on LinkedIn at the lowachiever. I I'm uh, you know, pretty it's it's pretty easy to Google, which is nice. Uh not too much comes up. And uh, you know, Jill, Jill Forth, Jill with a G, and uh, you know, I'm pretty pretty easy to find uh on socials at the LowAchiever.

Pedro Stein 36:14

Hmm. Okay, you know, there were a few things that I feel like I have to highlight, you know, from this chat today. Well, first of all, you being neurodivergent yourself and at 17 being diagnosed, I'm I love the fact that you're serving the past Jillian, you know. I think that is so powerful because it it positions you into a place of skin in the game, you've been there, done that, you know, all that stuff. So you understand where you're coming from and where you want to get, you know. So I think that's very powerful. Also, we gotta walk the talk, right? About self-investing and all that that you mentioned. Also a great reminder. I love the spoon theory, the you know, the evil twin. So I'm gonna take a look at that a little bit more and the energy mapping, you know. So is this burning me out or not at the end of the day? Because if I'm spinning my wheels just like you said, well, that's potentially burnout uh path, right? So I I really like that. Um thank you for that. And uh at the end of the day, then you you when I asked you, it's like what coaching is, you know, uh if you if you're trying to be a not trying to be, but what's the difference between a therapist, uh uh you know, a doctor, and all of that? And you told me it's not about replacing anything, you know, and being upfront about it, it but offering maybe a different route, a new route, you know, and using the coaching uh skill setup like that so you can you know navigate through difficult times and all, you know. So I I I this is my long way of saying, Jillian, that I really appreciate you taking the time. I've been so open with this, you know. It was great having you on today.

Gillian Forth 38:03

Thank you so much, Pedro. I really appreciated your questions. This was uh really fun conversation and uh has gotten some more wheels turning for me as well. Very, you know, thought-provoking, and uh, and so I really appreciate the time. Thank you, Pedro.

Davis Nguyen 38:17

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.