Career Reinvention Unfiltered Growth, Grit & People Strategy with Charlie Curson

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, our guest is Charlie Curson, a career coach and thought leader focused on helping individuals break free from conventional paths and build careers rooted in authenticity and purpose. Charlie shares powerful insights on why chasing trends and “new methods” can hold you back, and how focusing on genuine human connection, clarity, and self-awareness can lead to more meaningful and sustainable success. If you're looking to cut through the noise and create a career that truly reflects who you are, this episode is packed with actionable advice and fresh perspective.

You can find him on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliecurson/
https://www.teammandarin.com/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-More-Strategic-essential-practices/dp/1781339368

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

CEOs and chief people officers and HRDs and L and D's that I work with. So a big part of this is trying to fill a gap, which is not an MBA, even though I've run in the past like mini MBAs. It is about yes, we can equip you with the tools and the techniques, but the thing you really need to change is the way you think and the way you make decisions and the way you act and communicate.

Davis Nguyen 0:26

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to$100,000 years,$100,000 months, and even$100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over$100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 0:58

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today's guest is Charlie Carson, who spent 25 years plus proving that strategy shouldn't be locked in boardrooms and MBA programs. As founder of Mandarin and accredited leadership coach, he has helped 250 plus organizations across 30 plus industries, partnering with global giants like Visa, McDonald's, Unilever, and L'Oreal to design both growth strategies and innovation programs. What sets Charlie apart is his natural ability to integrate cutting-edge research with practical tools that actually work in the real world. He has coached thousands of leaders globally to think and act more strategically. And his soon-to-be published book, Be More Strategic, 12 Essential Practices to Build the Life and Career You Want, makes these skills accessible to everyone. Welcome to the show, Charlie.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Thank you very much. Great to see you, pleasure.

Pedro Stein 2:09

Yeah, it's great to see you and also great to have you. Okay. And you know what? I like to rewind a bit. You know, back to the origin story, Charlie, because every coach has that moment where they look at their life and say, you know what? I guess this is what I'm doing now. So where was that for you?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

I certainly do. Yeah. Um, so I was uh professionally, we were briefly speaking off air, weren't we? I guess as I started a more professional career, I was a graduate for uh one of the big consultancies, and so I was sort of in that strategy space, and then I was a little bit disillusioned in that world, if I'm honest with you, a little bit too many spreadsheets, um, not that much creativity or real insight, in my opinion, in some of the work, and I left that world after one too many giant PowerPoint slides I didn't really understand, and joined a much smaller place, um, based out of London, UK, where we would compete with the likes and twice beat the likes of McKinsey and pitches. And I guess we did the really kind of what you call upstream strategy work, and it was in doing that sort of work where then over the next few years, as I led my own clients, my own projects, and I also had some experiences outside of the professional world. I worked with Olympic teams, I was exposed more to areas of military and other high performance environments and coaching, and I started to move to that world. And I guess what happened was I'd start to be referred to as a coach by my clients, and I always felt slightly uncomfortable because I was aware that coaching was a profession and a skill. Maybe I was more of a mentor, but I wasn't a coach. And so I started to explore what coaching really was, what it looked like, etc. And about 10 years ago, I then qualified sort of professionally, if you like, uh, as a performance coach originally, which took about a year, and then ever since then, I uh, as part of a few things I do, one of them is I coach um leadership teams, but also individual leaders. Um, and I've done that, done that the world over.

Pedro Stein 4:18

Hmm. Okay, well, first of all, I can resonate with a consultancy background. I was also a consultant for a while in Ernest Young. Well, to be candid, I felt a bit different from you. Felt it was kind of boring here in Brazil. Sorry about that, consultants out there. Now, what I want to understand, you know, and you kind of dove in strategically into the professional side, but I want to understand the shift from you know, I'm helping people to I'm building a real business around this, your own business, you know. When at the early days in coaching, we're sometimes testing waters, you know, feeling it like, is this really going to, you know, be my new career? So, how did that end it up being for you? You know, that that transition to okay, this is really a business, you know?

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah, I'll I'll be completely honest with you. I I sort of live my life in chapters and I set my own business up about 15 years ago. But I'll be honest, it wasn't overly planned or considered, it was just a moment of circumstantially I'd had my time in the current space I was in in that smaller business, and I thought, you know what, I think I'm ready to do my own thing. So I didn't really leave with any great plans, etc. Uh, if anything, I was rather inspired by a coach myself who said a great thing to me in my early 30s. He said, I'll tell you what, Charlie, you're quite young. I remember him saying that to me. You could debate that, to do this. Um, but he said, I'll tell you what, if you're not completely clear, you're not leaving for a really clear purpose. He says, Why don't you take the mindset of just say yes to everything? It's a famous book, right, off that idea. Just say yes to everything. He said, fill your basket. And he said, after a couple of years, you'll probably start to find that you've worked out what you would like to be in your basket and what to take out. And he said, You'll probably naturally start to say no to things. And I think in many ways, that is kind of what happened. It probably took a little bit longer, but for a good number of years, in honest answer to your question, Pedro, I really did say yes to a lot of things. I did some amazing things. I got involved in all sorts of things, both um commercially and pro bono, and I partnered and I facilitated all over the planet. I was involved in an amazing piece of work called the Future Agenda, which took me right across the globe facilitating future session, expert sessions. And then probably around, I'd say 10 years ago, eight, 10 years ago, I to answer your question, I started to think, right, okay, I'm getting a feel now for what I feel is based something I would really enjoy doing, but also could be commercially viable. And I guess that's where I started to get much clearer on what I was about.

Pedro Stein 7:02

Interesting. I love the fact that you put in the raps, right? The repetition. It's like I'm taking the pro bono. I I need to have a sense of things, right? Because at the same time, you're helping, you're learning, right? You're feeling like, oh, how can I work best with this type of person or that that type of person? And I think that's a powerful reminder. But after you got rolling, right? What I want to understand is who were the people that kept showing up, you know, the ones you realized, okay, these this is my tribe, these are my people, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, client in terms of clients. Um the yeah, I'm I I don't know whether I'm unusual in this, but I I the the area of the strategy work I really enjoyed was the the workshops. It was the parts of the processes where you had a lot of people together for a few days often, and you would do the bit that was where sometimes it was about framing the issue, sometimes it was those kind of fun idea stages, sometimes it was the much harder making choices. You know, much more for me, the strategy side of it, before you got into making decisions and tough choices, and then you had to get really clear on what direction we're taking, what capabilities we will require, what do we need to stop, what do we need to prioritize, what do we need to plan, etc. etc. And that part of what I did, I always really enjoyed. So, in doing those sessions, you are in many ways using a combination of skills, strategy skills, facilitation skills, mediation skills, coaching skills, there's quite a lot of psychology. But of course, the key is, Pedro, it's all about people, isn't it? It's all about helping people, groups, individuals to achieve their potential. So I guess if you wind forward to what I do nowadays, I tend to do three things, really. I guess I tend to still do bits of consulting, but much more the workshop side. I tend to be the guy that comes in and does the classic off-site. You know, I'm asked to run and design those things or pull a team together. So I still do that, but probably more in an advisory capacity. So, to your question about who tends to come back, there's a lot of clients I work with large corporates to SMEs to scale-ups. I have a real passion for those sort of early stage businesses. And I will often be the guy that helps to run and design those sort of strategy and or leadership team sessions. And I guess what brings me back is I'm able to do both. And you kind of need to do both, I think. You know, helping a team to work out, you know, pause and think, well, what's happened historically? Where are we as a team? How's the team dynamic? What's our direction? How do we need to change our mindset and our behaviors in order to make sure that future happens brings me into the other two areas I do. So there's the sort of consulting side, I still do bits of. I do coach, I do kind of your purist type coaching, if you like, you know, where I have coaching clients as individuals and I do team coaching, and I also do a lot of capability building. So I guess the part of it that started to really build over the last 10 years and twins to my previous answer about where the business started to take more shape and structure was where people would start to say to me, You'd be running a project, the workshop would finish, and you'd have someone look at you, maybe the door closed privately, and they would say, This is really exciting, you know, this direction we've set, but I'm petrified. You know, I'm gonna get found out, the sort of imposter syndrome, or or can you teach our can you help to teach our team how to do this, as in to think more strategically? So that little part of it, and hence the name of the book, became a big part of what the last eight, ten years have been, which is helping to upskill people on what being strategic is all about. And in many ways, I've ended up combining those worlds, and I'm sometimes called a strategy coach or maybe a strategic leadership coach, albeit I personally find that a little bit long-winded.

Pedro Stein 11:06

Yes, I love that, you know. Uh the petrified, oh, the imposter scene is like eventually these people are gonna find out I don't know anything about this stuff. You know, it's like it's it's so surreal, and it happens to us like on a daily basis, even though sometimes we have like proof, right, that you're helping people. Oh my god, I I can totally resonate with that. Now, what I want to understand, right, it's now the marketing side. So it looks like you have somewhat of a hybrid approach, right? You facilitate teams, you facilitate leaders, individuals. So, how do those people usually find their way to you?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Yeah, a few ways normally in the larger businesses in the sort of corporations, it is uh I don't know, it's nearly always referrals. People tend to come around like that, people move jobs, and then I guess once you've done one good job for someone, you just become a part of their fabric. They trust you, they rely on you. So, depending on your way. So, let's say I'm thinking about a big tech company I work with now for we've just done a big offsite. I've done a big offsite for their executive team in February. I first met them probably nine, 10 years ago, and the first ask was, Oh, we have on our it was uh L D HR figure who said one of the competencies we need is to upskill people in being strategic. There's that phrase again, and apparently you can help. That was sort of how it began. So there I am going off to India and going to Poland, etc., and helping to run these sessions, and then of course, word gets round, and then you meet, you know, the boss, and then you get asked to maybe coach an individual, and then they ask if you could run their off-site, etc. Um, so that tends to be the way it plays out on the smaller end. I guess the worlds are different. So um, good networks, communities, uh, of let's say founders being involved. I'm also an angel investor, so those worlds are a little bit different, and so it might be more of a you meet people through, I don't know, sort of whether it's a networking thing or through some of your work or you're running an event. I also do quite a lot of, I mentioned the pro bono thing, you talk about doing the reps. I really enjoy putting events on, and yeah, some of them are overtly, you know what, we'll do a good thing, and you may end up working with someone as a result. But I'll be honest with you, sometimes it's just good fun. Sometimes it is, it may be an opportunity to work with a partner. So, for example, I have a long-standing partner who I've worked with who is a completely different world to me. He was a comedian and then he went into the world of upskilling and training comedians. He's trained some big name comedians, he specializes in improvisation techniques. So his running joke is you know, you start a session and he looks at a terrified audience and he says, Ah, if any of you are dreading that this is that day I make you stand up and pretend to be a teapot, you know, that sort of thing. And then sure enough, he's like, Right, everyone stand up. Um, so partnering with people is also a great way, I guess, and has been a great source of learning, you know, learning new techniques, but naturally, of course, your client bases uh cross-pollinate. So, yeah, I guess that's that's a that's a big part of where a lot of my clients have come from.

Pedro Stein 14:31

Interesting. Okay. Now let's talk business for a second, right? The structure. So people find you, right, through a referral or your even, you know, uh the network in the communities, and they resonate with your work. And eventually they want to know what working with, you know, Mandarin or Charlie looks like. And everyone builds their coaching business a bit differently. So when someone actually becomes a client, Charlie, what does that experience look like right now?

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Um, as a yeah, if they've come to be, if they've come to me through a lens of um as a coaching client, you know, so in the in the spirit of this particular conversation, um, that tends to be quite black and white, I guess. I doubt I'm hugely different to many other coaches, depending on circumstance. So an initial chemistry conversation if I don't know them, or maybe I've met them because of, as I said earlier, I've been running a leadership team session, and either a CEO says to me, Oh, Charlie, I I I understand you're also a coach, you know, could you potentially help one or two members of the team? So there's often an initial chemistry conversation. I think that's a really healthy thing. I also have coaches, so I will actually often encourage them or ask them, have you spoken to other people? I think that's really important. Um, and then if they're if they're keen to continue, there's a little bit of you know, there's a commercials, you said talking business and how it tends to work. And again, I don't think I'm any different to many others. There is you're often asked, how does this typically work? So if you're doing individual work, then I would typically start off by setting out, you know what, we're probably going to work over six sessions over about six months. Each one of them will be X long. We can do them as a mixture of online, possibly in person, etc. etc. Um, so that sort of approach, I guess, you know, I'll still use today. As you mentioned the book, actually, um, I think you said in the in the top at the top, uh, the book's due to it, the book is now out. So that actually a lot of PR has followed the book. And that has probably changed things a bit, Petro. So I am probably in the middle of transitioning and adapting how the business works because my uh sounds strange to say, but I guess because of the book as the PR, the my profile has changed, and therefore I'm getting a lot more incoming. So at the moment, I'm working through developing a lot more systems in order to better qualify people and route people and people in the right place, whether that's one-to-one work, it might be joining a group program, or it might be, as we said earlier, it might be that they need some help more directly with their leadership team or their organization. So I'm just in the middle really of that transition at the moment.

Pedro Stein 17:10

Hmm, interesting. Okay, now your work seems pretty hands-on, right, Charlie. Launching a book, facilitating teams, uh, the one-and-ones eventually, uh, but more strategic right now. And we're talking about, and I know you have a team that helps you at Mandarin, but how do you think about capacity? So don't stretch yourself too thin.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Yeah, it's a good well, as I said, yeah, in order in answer to my in answer to that question, really, I am having to think about that a lot at the moment because I'm going through this this phase. I think how do I think about capacity? It's a good problem to have, of course. Um any small business owner will will know that. You know, you you're gonna go through great periods where you you you've got too much demand and you're trying to work out how do I manage it, and then six months later, you know, you know, the feast of famine notion. Um I guess I'll I guess I'll answer that question by being very open and honest about the transition I'm going through at the moment, which is I'd largely spread where you had a consulting background, you'll get this better than many. I started my career in that world that's more time materials sort of world. And especially in the last five or so, but with the book, even more so, I'm trying to transition out of that space. So, more into clients who I'm in partnership with, I'm retained by, or running programs. So I've I've always had a bit of a history of bespoking everything to everyone, which comes by my background, and I always felt that was the right thing to do. And in the last few years, I'm recognizing that, especially with the book and the clarity the writing of the book gave me and the success it's had, I'm getting increasingly clear on who I help and how I help them, and getting people to enroll on my programs because I know they will achieve the right outcome rather than bespoking everything for every individual client, which may sound obvious, but I think it's a transition that um many smaller businesses go through.

Pedro Stein 19:15

Okay, I mean, exciting times, right? And I'm curious about where you're taking all this. Like you're you're the book has been launched, or currently, you know, you have uh you're in the eye of the hurricane for that transition that you just mentioned. So looking ahead, Charlie, where do you see the business going? Are you thinking about scaling, hiring, or is that a next step you're excited about?

SPEAKER_02 19:37

You know, yeah, absolutely. My my real focus now, so the book came out um November, and the idea really with it was that I was always going to move to a position of having spent 20 plus years serving clients. People often use this terminology closed and open. Um, so serving more of a closed community, which I've thoroughly enjoyed. I work with some amazing organizations, large and small, around the world. Around COVID, actually, just as COVID was happening, I had my first playing around with an open program. So I ran a strategy skills program and I went to my own network and I asked people from around the world if they wanted to join this program for three months, and it was really successful, people really enjoyed it. But what I realized in that was I was largely selling into my own network, so I was tapping up exactly the same people, and I guess in many ways, part of the book and raising you know, profile, if you like, has been in order to, I'm now doing it five years on, and it is gonna be infinitely better. And my real aspiration is that I will um, along with a team I'm working with, we will launch and run a truly world-class strategic capability accelerator program because the name of the book, right? Be more strategic is the the reason for the naming is because it's one of the most common things I get asked. People are trying to get to the top rung of their business, they've had another performance review, they've gone for a job interview. What do they keep being told? They keep being told you need to be more strategic or you need to think more strategically. And when they push for answers about what does that mean, outside of a lot of umming and ringing, they are met with silence, and that includes CEOs and chief people officers and HRDs and L and D's I work with. So a big part of this is trying to fill a gap, which is not an MBA, even though I've run in the past like mini MBAs, it is about yes, we can equip you with the tools and the techniques, but the thing you really need to change is the way you think and the way you make decisions and the way you uh act and communicate. And so the be more strategic idea and the emphasis really on the word be is not no more, you need to start being. So I guess bring The worlds of strategy, coaching, and I guess high performance coaching, which is really about routines and habits and practices. You're trying to build in an individual leader or in a leadership team or even more widely in an organization, a strategic capability, which I think is often lacking in businesses. I actually often find that yes, some businesses don't have a strategy at all. I mean, I think that's fair. People often muddle strategy and planning, they are not the same thing. But let's say they do have a strategy, it might be in the head of a CEO, it might be in the head of a managing partner or founder. So, firstly, it's about getting it out and getting it clarified and in the hands of everyone. But then you need to get people to be, you know, in those daily practices, people need to be acting strategically. People need to be keeping that in mind in the day-to-day conversations and choices they make. And that's often where it falls down. Especially, of course, in a world where people are under pressure, people are having to achieve targets. I had a conversation just this morning with someone who completely saw this, and he's a partner in a business. And he said, You're so right. He said, I think we're quite strategic as a business. But what normally happens is in the final quarter of every year, what happens? Suddenly the pressure rises that we have to hit our figures. All that great strategic stuff goes out the door. Everyone just becomes really reactive, they drop into silos, they hit their figures, they get to the end of the year, they go, Well done us. And then they go, right, where were those bigger things we're supposed to be doing? I often call that the 12-month trap. A lot of businesses, a lot of teams do that. So back to your question, what I would love to do is to become the go-to place for building strategic capability and leaders and leadership teams, whether that is a large corporate or it could be it could be public sector, it could be even a pro bono project with a charity, because I've worked with all of them and I think the needs are just the same.

Pedro Stein 24:03

Well, two things that I feel like I need to highlight is like when you mentioned they're like, yep, we need to be more strategic, and they're like just repeating a mantra, right? It's like, and okay, what does that exactly entail? They're like, I don't really know, right? I think that's hilarious. And the the second part is like about taking action, right? Be more strategic, just don't just talk about it, right? Take action, you know, have some metrics, have some milestones to hit. Because if you don't, it's just an you know imaginary world, it's not really happening. It's just like, yeah, we gotta do something about it. And next year, the 12 month strap you mentioned hits the door, you know, knocks on the door again, and it's like, yep, nothing had nothing changed, but we hit our metrics. But what about the big things? Right? So I love that those reminders. Okay, now, Charlie, I want to tap into your experience for a second, you know, because I feel like people listening can really benefit from this. You've been in the game long enough to hear all kinds of business advice, some good, some bad. You know, there's a lot of noise out there in social media. So, what's one piece of business advice you hear all the time that you think is that's overrated or potentially misunderstood, you know?

SPEAKER_02 25:23

One piece of business advice. I'm not sure it's overrated, uh, but certainly something I was recently drawn into a debate on, maybe, and and feel free to steer me on this. Um, I sometimes have people say that they're not actually to my previous to my previous point, they will say that, well, actually in our business, Charlie, we have a particularly visionary leader, and we're okay because the strategy is in their head. Like we're okay, they they will they will help us. It's not a team game, it is you know, it's in them, and that's okay, and we know our place in the team, and meanwhile, we'll let them do their thing and they will do that, and we will do this and that. I I don't agree with that. I I think that it has to be a co-creative exercise. I think the whole nature of an organization setting out its options, as I said earlier, before making choices about what path to take, where to invest, where to prioritize, has to be a collective exercise. And the more involved in that collective body and the more diverse that collective body, the better. It is a it is a team sport, I think. And if you can do that well, if you're brave enough, I think to do that well and involve more people, more diverse people. For example, not just the senior team. If I go and do a more in-depth piece of work with a with a team, I often say to them, by the way, I'm not just going to work with you eight or twelve, I want to make this team 36 people. I want people in this group who you wouldn't normally hear the opinions of. Because I think by going through those processes of getting that sort of thinking and challenging assumptions and recognizing your groupthink and your biases and accepting a much wider range of insights and options before you start to do the hard part of making choices, I think you're far more likely to close the gap to execution anyway. The one thing I really always have a bit of an issue with, this might answer your question, is when you do all this fantastic strategic sort of work or even planning work, Pedro, to our earlier conversation, even just the next 12 months. And it's done by a really small team, and then next project, right? Now we need to do a big engagement project. It's like, oh if you if you sort of just design it in a way which those two things are a little bit more meshed together, and strategy is rather emergent anyway, so you're sort of allowing for more co-creation, more involvement, more insight, more experimentation, more taking small steps, learning, going again. I don't think you often need to have these sort of rather protracted, right? We'll do this phase here, and then we'll stop, and then we're going on a big engagement mission. And I think that those sort of days are definitely um coming to a close, I think.

Pedro Stein 28:17

You know, I that brought me back to what you told me earlier about the silos, right? Because if you're thinking about the CEO, he's the only one with uh the playbook, the agenda, you know, the strategy, that's a silo, right? And that's the opposite of what you're trying to create. When it's like that team building, the the team already knows where you want to go, everyone is you know in your side trying to get there. That's actually a very good uh advice, I would say. And it re it aligns with you just said earlier, you know. I think it's aligned, yeah, perfectly aligned. Now, on the other side, right, Charlie, what's a piece of advice which more people actually took seriously, you know?

SPEAKER_02 29:02

One of the areas I often find myself drifting into in any type of intervention with a with a client team is uh communication skills. Um I think I I really believe this actually, and this comes from experience not just in the sort of space we're describing, but also in non-business settings. Yeah, having spent time with elite sports teams, uh areas of military, even ballet schools and theaters, these sort of really high performing environments, kitchens, mission star kitchens, where it's done really well, where it is where they are more high performing and they are they have a fully engaged workforce and they achieve the results they're expecting. When you unravel that, what tends to be below everything is they invest time in and they practiced communicating all the time. Um and if you are starting to unpick that that includes you know, this may sound obvious, but feedback skills, the ability to handle more challenging conversations. Even this week I was with a group, a very senior group, they have more robust, challenging conversations, the CEO gets feedback once in a blue moon. And is it any wonder that performance struggles? And I guess if you really unpick that into something that someone listening could think, well, that's a really broad, broad domain. Focus on just one really important aspect of that, which is your ability to listen. Most people don't listen as well as they think they might. And simply by being more aware of it, recognizing, for example, that we all have barriers to listening. We may have a tendency to you may be doing it now, right? Mind reading, rehearsing as a facilitator. You see people rehearsing all the time, they are no longer listening to what is being said because they are preparing what they're going to say in response. Um advising, you probably, I don't know about you, but I've certainly had a few moments where family members might say to me, I don't want your advice, I just want you to listen. There's a whole range of them. Um, so I think listening skills, when I get into quite in-depth leadership team coaching with clients, but I think it does relate really closely to strategy and being more strategic and co-creation and experimenting and learning. I think everybody could learn to listen better and to be more present. And I find in first hand experience it is probably the one thing that makes the biggest difference to both an individual but also the way a team functions.

Pedro Stein 32:01

You're getting me into a rabbit hole chair here, Charlie. I I just watched that uh show from Gordon Ramsey on Netflix about his new restaurant. And when you mentioned different industries, right? And I'm and communication skills and the way they communicate with like the sous chef, the chef, the you know, the staff and all that, that that's like a key aspect of it. He like he won't accept people are just on their own silos, you know. You need to communicate. It doesn't matter if you're having a problem or not, you need to communicate and keep moving forward and communicating with people. And also, when you you said about the you just want I just want you to listen. This is uh do you have a camera here in my home? You know, out of just out of curiosity, because sometimes my wife frames it like that. She's like, you know what? You don't have to solve it, okay? Just shut up and listen. And I'm like, okay, and then she's talking. I'm like, oh, okay. And I need to hold myself back because sometimes we're trying to give them answers, right? When in reality, what we need to do is just, you know, hold, I would say hold presence, be there, and understand this is a process more about them than you, you know. So I love those two reminders. Okay, I really love that. And Charlie, if someone listening wants to connect with you or follow your work, you know, where can people find you and connect with you?

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Well, uh, you're if you're able to share a few things in show notes as well. I can always I can always help. People are LinkedIn users, they'll find me there. Uh, company URL is Team Mandarin. I guess my book uh now is you know, in terms of kind of easy, searchable, findable name. So yeah, be more strategic if people are interested. It's been uh been quite an exciting journey the last few months. But if you look up the name of the book, uh there's a very good chance that you'll find your way to me, my door, my team, get in touch, love to hear from people. I actually had a call just this morning with someone about uh someone I was introduced to through a mutual friend, you know, good people, you know, know good people, and that sort of spirit of pay it forward. I've always been a real believer in. And um we didn't we just had a good chat this morning about exactly that that sort of idea of you know what, jumping on a call with someone having half an hour to share their stories. I'm always very happy to do that and find time for people. It's um takes us full circle, doesn't it? Really, many ways, back to coaching and what led me into coaching. I guess I am a people person first and foremost, and I enjoy helping people, I enjoy people achieving their potential, uh, which is probably why I've ended up in that coaching space.

Pedro Stein 34:52

Yeah, some of links will be shared in the description for all channels. And uh, I gotta say, there were a few things that you shared today that really stay with me, okay? I would say first on the origin story when you're telling me you're that was not overly planned, and then later on you're like, I'm petrified, right? About the the team teamwork and all that. So I think I always emphasize this. I think vulnerability is a key asset for a true coach, you know, being able to connect with people on the same level instead of a preaching mode, being able to understand you don't have all the answers. Maybe you have the good questions, right? But not all the answers. We're here to learn together. I think that's a very powerful uh asset for a coach, okay? I'll put it like that. I love how how your message sometimes sounds so to the point and so simple, right? It's when you you quote it, it's all about people, right? It really is all about people. At the end of the day, we're trying to find ways, different programs, different approaches, but at the end of the day, we're just trying to help people, you know, and how passionate, I I think that's so unique. How passionate you are about, you know, launching events, workshops. You you keep hammering that. You're like, I love to know, throw at an event, facilitate a workshop. I think that is so cool of you. I imagine they you must have a blast there, and you're like, at the end of the day, that's just the way you you you find yourself having joy to you know helping people. So we're back to square one. So I really like that. Now, Charlie, this is my long way of saying I appreciate what you do, and I appreciate it being here and sharing so openly today. Okay, it was great having you on.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Thank you, and somehow, Pedro, we managed to get to the end without talking about Lego, but maybe we'll just leave it as a cliffhanger for number two.

Pedro Stein 36:50

Okay, before we close this out, yeah, I think that's perfectly aligned with the facilitation and uh workshops. We're just changing the theme a little bit, right? It's Lego.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Yeah, I'm sorry, I've I've put you up there's another rabbit hole. I think uh for those looking on camera, I don't you can probably see them. If I move slightly, you can sort of see the little Lego figures behind me. So yeah, for those for those listening, this sort of headline was I do a lot of what you call serious play, uh, technique developed by Lego with two of the business schools back in the late 90s, it's now open source. Put it another way, I have a hundred kilos of Lego in my office, which my children aren't allowed to touch. It's for use with adults and leaders. I've taken it through customs, I've taken it to India and Johannesburg and various other places and had strange conversations with customs as they've been asking me, What are you doing with Lego? And I've tried to explain that I'm using it for events and running workshops, but it is super powerful, right? It's really effective for I've used it to help individuals having midlife crises to big complex problem in the oil and gas industry, to a music company setting their vision using Lego as a team built their vision in Lego. Uh, so effective was that that it took about only about an hour and they ended up keeping it, and it sits in their boardroom to this very day. So yeah, that the and really it's about, of course, the power of it's about the power of stories, right? It's the fact that you're building it, not describing it, which is what makes us so effective.

Pedro Stein 38:23

Wow, that's another rabbit hole. Okay. I appreciate that, Charlie. I appreciate you being here sharing so open today, okay? Great having you.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Thank you. Thank you, Pedro.

Davis Nguyen 38:34

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.