Unlocking Authentic Leadership Insights with Jeanna Malines

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, our guest is Jeanna Malines, a dynamic career and leadership coach dedicated to helping professionals find clarity, confidence, and purpose in their careers. With years of experience in leadership development, career transitions, and personal empowerment, Jeanna shares her insights on how to navigate change, lead authentically, and create sustainable success. She discusses the importance of self-discovery, emotional intelligence, and taking intentional action in building a fulfilling professional journey.

You can find her on:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanna-malines/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/trajectacareers/

https://trajecta.net/

Transcript

Jeanna Malines: 0:00

When they actually apply for a job, there's no reason not to just because you sent your resume into an ATS system doesn't mean we shouldn't be talking about, okay, the job description says this position reports to the so and so. I identify the so and so. I reach out to the so-and-so, connect with them myself. If they connect back with me, I ask them if they'd be open for a warm introduction with my client. And nine times out of ten, they're like, absolutely.

Davis Nguyen: 0:24

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Kevin Yee: 0:55

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by Gina Molinas. She's been a coach for unofficially for the last 20 years, officially for the last two years. She's the founder of Trajecta. Welcome to the podcast, Gina.

Jeanna Malines: 1:12

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Kevin Yee: 1:14

Yeah. You know, pre-podcast, you're telling me about your origin story, the lore of how you got into it. And I was like, dude, we have to cut you off right away so we can just like jump into it. So I want to ask you, how did you get into this industry and what made you want to turn it into a business?

Jeanna Malines: 1:29

So I started my career probably about 2004 as a recruiter, third-party recruiter, agency recruiter. My very first job was doing executive level, so VP in above searches in for the major home builders. And this was during the housing boom. And I was like, this is the easiest job ever. Made way over six figures my first year, rookie of the year, flew me to Hawaii. And as, you know, then the housing market crashed, the bubble burst, and I had to reinvent myself and more of engineering and then into IT and technology. But no matter what I was doing as a recruiter, whether it was an agency recruiter or I was a corporate recruiter, if there was a candidate that I really, really just connected with and believed in, and maybe they weren't the right fit at this time, but you know, or they were just like, I just really liked them and they were struggling, I would take my time to rewrite the resume. I would talk to them about strategy, about networking, about, hey, I know you're looking only in this industry, but have you thought about these tangent industries where your skill set really great fit and maybe those industries are doing a bit better? And it was just like the light bulbs came on. And so I loved doing that, but I was always doing that on my own time. So I was most recently my last job was I created the executive recruitment division for Central Florida's biggest hospital system, talking 15 hospitals, corporate, the foundation, ambulatory and post-acute division of 17 different divisions. So it was a big deal. And the year before that, they were using for their executive level positions, they were using third-party recruiters, and they had spent $22 million the year before. And this is a nonprofit hospital.

Kevin Yee: 3:11

Wow.

Jeanna Malines: 3:11

So my job was to come in and build that white glove service that all of the C-suite and the VPs and the SVPs and the AVPs were used to using and really get their buy-in. I was really able to do that quite successfully. I mean, in under a year, I saved them a million dollars in recruitment fees. In under a year. And then something happened, things happened, ended up not working quite out. I think that they budgeted my position a little too high. And I was growing the division. And they, I think that they knew that my number two, they could get her for a lot less than what they were paying me because I was the first one that there was no blueprint. And so that ended. And I mean, I thought that was going to be my forever job. And I was tossed into the job market, which I'm used to being in, happy to interview, love it. Actually, I like interviewing. I'm one of those weirdos. Then I just had such a hard time. And I didn't know if it was what it was, what was going on. And I saw a lot of other people really struggling. I got into I started following this subreddit called Recruiting Health. And it blew my mind. It opened my eyes to exactly what's happening out there in the job market with job seekers. And I was like, there has to be a better way. And I partnered with an old coworker of mine. We both worked for a gentleman. It was a super toxic environment. And, you know, we kind of created superior career services. But then after some time, I wanted to kind of do things a different way and really focus on the mental health aspect of this job market and how different it is. And also focus on empowerment and, you know, that getting that negative head top and all of that stuff before we, you know, we tackle what we need to do, which is either leave a situation that's not good, you know, maybe somebody who's career pivoting and they're going into a different industry. So their resume is not getting past any APS system, or they're coming back into the job market after a break. Some people are coming out of retirement. Some people started their own businesses and now maybe didn't quite work out. Lots of different stuff. And I saw that the main thing with every single one of these people is that talking to somebody who has been looking for a year, they've sent out thousands of resumes, they've gotten crickets. What's going on out there? Like what is happening. And so I hate the word holistic, but I take an approach where I meet people where they are. And then we build off of the momentum that they've started. We go back and look what they did and you know what could have been, you know, what we could have done better and what could still be salvaged, and then move forward with a very structured strategic campaign that focuses not only on what's out there being posted, but identifying the leadership in companies and industries that they want to work in and going directly to them, whether there's a job opening or not, and positioning yourself as a solutions-based hire.

Kevin Yee: 6:12

I love that. There's just so much to uncover here. Let's cover the first. There's two things I want to uncover actually. The first thing you mentioned in your story, you stumbled upon the subreddit recruiting hell. That sounds like a very pivotal part of your story. And so what were some of those things that you saw in that Reddit that really shocked?

Jeanna Malines: 6:31

You know, a lot of people, one of the things that really shocked me was the amount of resumes that people were sending out and not even getting the thanks but no thanks. Thousands sometimes. Another thing that really shocked me was, you know, getting that call to interview, you know, with talent acquisition or a third-party recruiter, and then completely being ghosted. Just they're gone. Another thing that really and I experienced as a corporate recruiter, and it was getting worse was these interview processes that were going, oh, seven interviews plus a panel, taking months. And then, you know, when they finally come around and say, okay, yeah, we'd like to bring you in, well, that person's either already found a job or is very disillusioned with the company in their process. And then the scams, the LinkedIn scams, the doppelganger accounts, the ghost jobs, all of these things. And everybody was sharing their own personal experience. And it was really eye-opening for me because this is all across the world. This isn't just in Florida or the US or anything. This is happening everywhere. And it really kind of lit a fire in me to address these things and address these things within my coaching.

Kevin Yee: 7:42

Do you feel like it was always this way, or did things kind of change as like maybe it's technology or some other reasons? What are your thoughts about that?

Jeanna Malines: 7:50

Well, I think it's not, it's a little bit of everything. I think a lot of people they want to blame AI. Boogie Man, the boogeyman, the boogeyman. AI is reviewing my resume and they're and this and that, and it's all AI's fault. Well, ATS systems have been around for decades. They've been reviewing your resume for keywords since the beginning of probably some of these people's job search. And you know, ATS's applicant tracking systems, that's what they do. They take the job description, the recruiter, talent acquisition person puts in the keywords that they're looking for. It scores those resumes and puts them in good, not good, absolutely not, or good, okay, no. And you know, it's only as good, good data in, good data out, right? Bad data in, bad data out. A lot of times these job descriptions aren't really accurate. So sometimes there's job descriptions that they're using that are maybe just a wish list of the hiring manager. So people maybe are like, oh, I don't have that, that, that, and that. Or is in my case with Orlando Health, HR owned all of the job descriptions. And to get any changes made to those job descriptions took an act of Congress. And so finally, the hiring executive would be like, just post it. You know what I want. So all of these things are happening in conjunction with ATS systems. Now we have also a big, well, we've got people through COVID who maybe took less traditional routes of employment that are ready to go back to work and they're having a very hard time because they've been, you know, four years, five years as a consultant in consulting and freelance and doing these things. So that's been a huge, huge thing. But it's the sheer number of job seekers. Anyone out there will see a post on LinkedIn posted a day ago, over a hundred recruiters are getting thousands and thousands of applicants. And with the ATS tools and any AI integration, which not all of them are even doing, they just can't physically get through them. So a lot of times people will complain that I was seeing a lot, this job was posted and then it was taken down, and then it was posted three days later. It's a fake job. Not necessarily. It could be the talent acquisition person got overwhelmed, had to take the posting down, and then got through all of those resumes, made a short list and realized they needed some more and reposted the position for a second round. Or it could easily be they have a lot of different roles that are the same title. When I was at Orlando Health, I probably had six senior directors of HR that I needed all at all times. So if somebody applied to one, I might have six, but I've got somebody for that one. I take that one down and then they get the rejection email. But I've got six others in Central Florida. And so it's just the perception of from the job seeker of what's happening out there. And they can't see what's really going on. They can't see that. But, you know, as many of us, especially if you've been in this job market for long, you've got some thin skin from all of the rejection. And it's just the mindset is to blame the boogeyman, to blame the companies, to blame AI, to blame recruiters. And really, it's just the sheer amount of candidates right now that are out there in the job market. I nothing like that. It's really interesting.

Kevin Yee: 11:08

Yeah, it's really interesting because you were saying earlier that these people are sending out thousands of applications sometimes and they hear nothing but crickets. And it almost kind of reminds me of like there's a very similar correlation in like the dating world where people are just like get feel like they're getting ghosted. And you mentioned the toll of the mental health and all that, too. And I think that sometimes gets like overlooked upon or like forgotten that you know, sometimes when people are looking for jobs, it's actually a very uncertain time, and it can take a huge like mental health. I'm kind of curious about like what made you want to focus so much on the mental health from your end, I guess.

Jeanna Malines: 11:43

So it has to be addressed because this job market, this phenomenon. And I was speaking, I was watching another podcast. Actually, one of my clients had he does career coaching, but he was talking about the job market. And you know, this isn't demoralizing, depressing, potentially life threatening. And that has to be addressed, especially for people who and so many people out there who are on the spectrum. And I focus a lot on ADHD because I was diagnosed with ADHD later in life, as most women are, because boys, it's easy to catch younger in life. Girls, not so much. Generally, girls tend to focus inwards as opposed to being, you know, fidgety or this or that. Ours is more internal than external. So for a lot of women, they haven't been diagnosed or they got diagnosed later in life. And that throws a whole nother curveball because for the people out there that are neurospicy, as I like to call it, we all have different superpowers and we all have our kryptonites. And you know, sometimes it's executive dysfunction where half of your brain for knowing what you need to do is kicking, but the actual part of your brain to actually physically get up and do it ain't working today. Can't control that. And then there's the rejection sensitivity disorder that comes with that. If you think about it, if you ever see your friends out and know they didn't invite you and you get FOMO. And now everybody hates you and you think they all hate your guy, but maybe they just thought you were out of town, or maybe you flaked on them so many times they didn't bother because that's another thing. And then there's also the time management part of it. A lot of times it's like I always say, if you're ready, you don't have to get ready. And I try to live by that as much as possible. But nine times out of 10, I'm cutting myself to the wire, I'm running late, I'm still throwing my face on. And then also a lot of time if somebody with ADHD has an interview at three o'clock in the afternoon, they are literally paralyzed until three o'clock in the afternoon. Whether it's an interview, a doctor's appointment, anything. We always try to do things early in the morning because a lot of times we'll just get paralyzed knowing we have this thing that we have to do at three o'clock. So for the whole day, we're just completely kind of just not there. So there's all these different factors that come into people with ADHD in the job search. But I think that it goes back to everybody. So when I'm seeing these people talking about, you know, how they're feeling, about being rejected, about being ghosted, about falling for a scam, and they take it so hard on themselves. I was just putting that all back to wow, this is how I feel. This is how I felt. I experienced this myself. If I'm experiencing this, gosh, how many people are? And so that's why I think it's really important to talk about mental health and talk about where people's mindset is and talk about those negative thoughts and oh, I'm too old, I'm unemployable, I'm too black, I'm too this, I'm too that. And really just kind of trying to break those things down, those negative things that we tell ourselves every day, even with neurotypical people. This job market has beaten them down that I feel like I connect with them on the neurodivergent level.

Kevin Yee: 14:49

And speaking about ADHD and neurodivergence, right? Let's talk about the marketing for a second. Like obviously, for you to provide services, people have to know about you. And so, how are these people finding you? What kind of marketing are you kind of doing out there to get people to know about you?

Jeanna Malines: 15:04

I was just in the middle of this really kind of interesting course about kind of building your coaching business. And it was really for people who had not really started or were just thinking about it. But I was, you know, kind of put my big launch on hold because I wanted to get through this course. That was something that it was a mistake. So, right now, as far as marketing goes, a lot of it is word of mouth. I have a massive LinkedIn network just because I've always, if you are only networking when you need a job, you're doing it wrong. You got to be constantly networking in your industry and your field. And so I've built an amazing network over my career and since LinkedIn came out. Now, LinkedIn's kind of turned a little bit into Facebook, to be honest. Getting a little noisy. It used to be really great for what it does. But so that that's a huge factor for me is LinkedIn. And then I also invested in some tools to help me market to people that I might not necessarily be connected to, but I can like narrow them down and build lists of like people in different industries, like sales and marketing people, you know, maybe these types of people, the people that I see that are really struggling out there, and also that are more open to I think investing in themselves sometimes. And then I can literally just, you know, put together a nice email, send it out, just kind of you know, explaining what I do, and then it automatically generates a follow-up email, and then it will generate a LinkedIn uh request, connection request. And if I want to, I can even do SMS texting, but I don't like to do that.

Speaker 4: 16:30

Yeah.

Jeanna Malines: 16:30

But it's all happening behind the scenes, it's all happening out there. So I really I've invested in tools and and those same that same tool I actually use for my clients when we're identifying the industries and the companies that they want to work for and their target audience, the hiring managers that would hire them. So I can build these giant lists for my clients and put together exactly what to say when they reach out and how to position themselves as a solutions-based hire. Because every job's got three things that always need improvement that keep their boss up at night. What are those three things? How have you solved them in the past? And not sending the resume, not even asking for a job, just possessing themselves as somebody who's interested in your company. And here's some things that I've done in the past that I think you might be interested in.

Kevin Yee: 17:14

I love that. And so, like, okay, you're on LinkedIn, you have word of mouth, you have these tools that are kind of uh where you're connecting with people. I'm sure people are hiring you for your services and stuff. And so I'm kind of curious, what do your coaching engagements look like?

Jeanna Malines: 17:29

So I have it split up in two different things, and I'm working on this today. I have a full eight-week course that does everything that I do from the initial kickoff call to, you know, kind of mindset to okay, let's update your resume and your LinkedIn profile. Now let's take a look at your company list and build those company lists based on the companies that you're interested in. And in putting together these lists, they're identifying companies that they didn't even know about, industries that are tangential, and so it broadens their scope, coaching them, putting together actually literally the verbiage that they can use going out there. I literally, in one of my tools, I have it'll actually grade the email, like, okay, you'll have a 79%, this and that, and the other. And so I can make sure I tweak it so that it's absolute best percentage and of positive responses. I kind of send them out there into the world. Now, also, when they actually apply for a job, there's no reason not to, just because you sent your resume into an ATS system, doesn't mean we shouldn't be talking about, okay, the job description says this position reports to the so-and-so. I identify the so-and-so, I reach out to the so-and-so, connect with them myself. If they connect back with me, I ask them if they'd be open for a warm introduction with my client. And nine times out of 10, they're like, absolutely. Don't mention that they might have applied or even interviewed because there could be other opportunities within that company and other departments or with new positions. So it's really showcasing and showing clients how to feel comfortable, you know, going direct and direct to the person that can hire you. And a lot of people are super uncomfortable with that. They don't like it. No, no, no, no, that's not the way things were done. But this is an unprecedented job market and things have to change.

Kevin Yee: 19:11

We have to change the way we think about it. What about that makes people uncomfortable through your experience?

Jeanna Malines: 19:16

Maybe it's pushy. Maybe they find that why would I reach out to a company if they don't even have an open position? Why would I do that? When I know this company is hiring. Well, this company has posted a position you're interested in. Now you're up against probably thousands of applicants, hundreds, once they narrow them down. That's if you get through the ATS system. And then, you know, maybe they had an internal candidate all along, or and they had to post it for regulatory reasons, or, you know, a host of things. You don't have, and you can see out there people are applying and applying and applying. There, it's not a human experience anymore, right? You're just ones and zeros going through the machine. When you reach out to somebody who can actually hire you, not only are you expressing your interest in that company and expressing the common problems that face that industry or position and how you've conquered them in the past, but you're also setting your creating more of that human element. So whether it's a LinkedIn connection or an email to a hiring manager, and you never know what's going on in the boardroom. You never know what they're talking about, what they need. And by the time a decision is made for a high-level position, it goes down through the thing, and then it finally gets to the talent acquisition, and then it's posted. And then it might be too late because you didn't catch it within the first 24 hours. So you never know what's going on behind the scenes. And several times I've had candidates have positions created for them. Wow. Specifically to target the things that they talked about and other issues within the company where they've been like, we really need to solve this, this, and this. And then all of a sudden, this email shows up and they're like, huh, that's interesting. I was just talking about this. Or maybe the email gets read and two months later they're like, oh, the COO or the director of business development just put in there two weeks. We got to get on this quick. And then that one person is like, Oh, I remember I got an email. Let me go back and look at that. I mean, if you were selling widgets, would you sell widgets to the receptionist or to VP of sales or business development?

Kevin Yee: 21:22

Business development.

Jeanna Malines: 21:22

Right. So why would you or or or you know, the CFO or whoever's responsible for procurement? But it's like I look at the ATS system as the gatekeeper. It's the first gatekeeper in the line of gatekeepers. So would you sell a widget to ATS system? No. And we have to think about ourselves in this job market as being in a sales situation. We're trying to sell ourselves that our product is better than the other thousand products that they've looked at. And the others, those other products are competition, other job seekers.

Kevin Yee: 21:53

Yeah, it's really interesting too because I see so many similarities between like being an entrepreneur and like applying for these jobs. Also, I, of course, my brain always goes to dating analogies and stuff too, like to never assume what's going behind the scenes as well. But then something interesting that you mentioned too is like people feel like they're pushy and stuff. And so, what's a way for people to either shift their mindset or have a non-pushy, assertive like approach? Like, what's the positioning going into that if we want to do that?

Jeanna Malines: 22:25

I really start with a very, very passive approach for people like that, and you know, really frame the email very passively, no expectations, so that they you know just want to connect, been following your company for years, and or you know, things like that, or maybe it's on LinkedIn, you see somebody just got a promotion, and that person would be in your department, maybe your peer or above you, and saying, Hey man, even if you're not connected to them, congratulations on your promotion. And then, you know, if you see somebody that's posting good material on LinkedIn, maybe it's in a group that's you specialize in your industry, and start interacting with their posts and then follow them. And then oftentimes, if you just comment enough and then follow them, they'll send a connection request to the person. And they're like, oh man, I got a connection request from the you know VP of sales at such and such. And I'm like, oh, how'd that happen? Oh, I just they were really active on posting about this particular subject, and I found it fascinating. So I said so. And I'm like, okay, so you start with very non-aggressive, very passive messages and passive approaches. Now they're getting some wins, they're feeling more confident. And I'm like, okay, well, what if now we don't just say the the niceties, what if now we do talk about your accomplishments? And they're like, okay, let's try that. And then they see more wins, and then they're like, okay, so it's just baby steps with people like that. And I get it. It's, I mean, you know, back in the day, we used to go in and ask for an application, knock on, you know, call and you know, set up a meeting with the director of finance. But I mean, and it took the human element is gone and it's been gone for a long time. But the amount of job seekers compared to pre-COVID is exponentially higher. So the human element is almost impossible to put back in in a regular, I see a job, let's apply to it kind of situation.

Kevin Yee: 24:17

Clearly, the work that you do is very impactful, right? And you're clearly passionate, but not only passionate, but you know a lot. It's clear as day to me that you've been in this industry for a while. And so I would actually like your advice on something. A lot of coaches, from what I hear, struggle with things like money or pricing or pricing strategies. How to price their services. Of course, Gina, you do not have to give any hard numbers, but how do you think about structuring your pricing? Do you like do a success like feed? Do you do like value-based packages? There's so many different models. Which ones have you kind of? There is.

Jeanna Malines: 24:51

You know, previously, I what I wanted to do and why I started this trajectory was I wanted to make things really apparent. Like there's no secret, there's no hiding, you know, this is what things cost. There were so many people that we couldn't help. I couldn't help previously because it was a package deal. There wasn't a lot of transparency on what it cost, just not a good practice of how things would be priced or packaged. It was based on not what I think is something that should be important. And so I really wanted to do things a la carte because not everybody, some people have a great resume. Some people have a fantastic network on LinkedIn. They just don't know how to utilize it. Some people might just need me to build that list of a hundred or five hundred people in their industry that could hire them and they want to put together that email or put together that reach out plan for networking on LinkedIn. And then some people might. I have a client right now. He came to me at the end of his job search. He's a sustainability engineer and he's gonna be reporting directly to the chief human resources officer, and he's an engineer through and through. And he was terrified. His first interview after the talent acquisition person was gonna be with this DHRO and the person he'd be reporting to.

Speaker 2: 26:05

And he needed to know how to speak your language.

Jeanna Malines: 26:09

We started at the end, and I said, So, okay, this is what we're gonna do. And I put together a different kind of format for him, and I said, So if we get you past the HR interview and then we'll move on to the next one. Now, don't get the job, anything that you've spent will be credited towards the full package. So I have a hybrid model. So I have the complete eight-week course, A to Z, and that includes like the needs to jump on a call with me for 30 minutes for a mindset, or hey, I'm interviewing with so and so at such and such, and me doing a deep dive into that person and learning everything I can about them, putting together a full dossier and the questions that you might expect from them based on all the information that's out there. So there's the full package, and then I also break it down into okay, maybe you just need this. And then they see success with that and they're like, okay, I got such a better response. Now, what else can we do? Like, I saw my response rate go from you know 2% to 20%. Maybe it didn't get quite get the job done. Maybe it was a new resume in LinkedIn update. What else can we do? Because I did see a marked improvement. I'm like, okay, great. Well, let's think about this. So, like I said, I want to meet people where they are. So that was really interesting to start with somebody at the end of their process. Yeah. I was like, how do I wrap my head around this one? I had to get creative. But like I said, I'm super creative. I'm there's always a way to solve a problem. I'm super open to, you know, mixing and matching and putting things together that make sense for people. Like sometimes that full package, just like that coaching package I was talking about, was for people that were just starting a. I've been a coach for two years. So it wasn't exactly right for me. So I want to make sure that what I'm positioning for my clients is what they need right now and then also what they might need in the future. I even do 30, 60, 90 day reviews after they find their job. Okay, there's a checklist for the 30 days, for the 60 days and the 90 days, all about making a good transition. So that's another thing that I do after they've gotten in their position, because a lot of times the onboarding and transition part of the process for a lot of companies is really lacking at even the highest levels. And people feel like that they have got the job. Here's your laptop, here's your computer, here's your logins, and then they don't see anybody for a week. So making sure that they're transitioning well, that if there's any issues with communication, with this or that, that I help them navigate those issues before they become a situation where they don't make it to their, you know, 90-day period, or they just give up. I went from the frying pan into the fire.

Kevin Yee: 28:38

Something that strikes me is like the level of your work seems pretty intimate, right? There's a lot that goes into it. And so when you think about your, I guess, like current client capacity, how do you manage everything? Do you have like a team behind you? Do you have an assistant? I'm very curious.

Jeanna Malines: 28:54

Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the beautiful things about all of this new technology and all of the stuff is the addition of virtual assistant to our workspace. As an entrepreneur, I'm sure that you know that's one of the first things that entrepreneurs do once they have enough capital and then they've made enough ground. And so that makes a huge difference. You know, keeping up with my email, keeping up like just files on my computer and putting them where they need to be, and all of the organizational and all the administrative stuff that my ADHD brain despises structure. So they're able to structure that part of my life so that I'm able to focus on my clients. And and I actually do develop. You said that, you know, about my work, and and there's it's very intimate. I really do develop wonderful relationships with my clients. One of my clients called me up out of the blue from back when I worked at Orlando Health. Wow. And he just called me and he's like, Hey, do you remember me? And I'm like, tell me more. And he was like, Oh, I was up for the ACO job at OMC. And I'm like, Oh my god, Adonis, yes, I remember you. And he had saved my number for all these years. So yeah, we're working together now in a different capacity where I was his recruiter, but I was also his advocate. I was Really advocating for him to get this role really hard because I knew it would be great. And so now we're just working together in a different capacity. And with my gentleman that was came in at the end of it, we had to get real truthful and real honest, real quick about each about each other. One thing he asked me the first time we met, he said, Do you really think that you're gonna be able to help me? And I said, Well, I'm gonna answer your question with a question. Are you coachable? And he was just like, Okay, that's a good question. I think so. Yeah. Because he was in the military, and you know, he's and I was like, But yeah, you have to be coachable, you have to be open-minded, and you have to be able to take my loving criticism.

Kevin Yee: 30:36

Something that really strikes me too is like as you're thinking about these stories, and you've only been in business for like officially been in business. Obviously, you've been doing this for a long time, but you've been officially in business for the last two years. And so I'm kind of curious where do you want this coaching business to take you in the next few years? Like, do you have any secret dreams, big ambitions no one knows about, desires to scale? Like, I would love to kind of hear like what's on top of mind for that.

Jeanna Malines: 31:02

Yeah, you know, I've got two books that I'm writing right now. One is a focus on job search and ADHD, and another one's a focus on the job market. And I've got a really interesting premise and kind of piggybacking on a phenomenal book that is was The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and how I break down every person and like the personalities and the things in that book, and I equate them to parts of the job market and parts of the job search. So that's a more funny tongue-in-cheek, but then with actual like now let's break it down. Whereas the book regarding the complexities of neurodivergency in the job market is gonna be something that's a little bit less tongue-in-cheek and less funny. Now, when it comes to scaling, yes, I do want to scale, but I want to scale in an effective way. I want to have a system where a lot of the things that I'm doing in teaching one-on-one, which is so important, they can also come back to in the platform that I use and do a refresher if they need it or learn about something new. Like I'm always uploading new stuff and new documents and new things. And so I want them to be able to go and have a place where they can have a library of things that can help them and as opposed to, you know, because sometimes gotten when it comes to pricing and when it comes to, you know, said, all right, you know what, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna do this and this, and then you end up working with a person for six months. You charge them 500 bucks. And you're like, my gosh, at this point, I'm working for you know, 50 cents an hour. Because I mean that's just I'm like, oh darn it. I really want to help you. So some of that is me being realistic with people and kind of sticking to the guns of like, and that's why I have like the package and then I have everything, you know, broken down. And anything that they do, you know, all a carte, if they want to roll into the full program, then obviously I, you know, I take some of that out. And then also, you know, it's just a lot of you know, future dreams is, you know, I want to be able to put myself in a situation where I can, you know, be on the road. I had a sales coach for the longest time, and half the time he would be conducting our weekly sales coachings from the cabin of a cruise ship or from vacation here or there. And so I'd really love the opportunity to be able to pick up and do whatever I do wherever I'm at. So that's a really big thing for me. Do I want to delegate my coaching practice to other coaches? That's a very good question. Right now, that's a no. But then again, I think that other coaches also bring so much more to the table and so and new ideas, and I want to surround myself with people. Also working with and partnering with other, I'm working on a partnership with this company. They're looking for career coaches that are like this person is subject matter expert on resumes in LinkedIn, and this one's the subject matter expert on interviewing, and this one is the subject matter expert on tapping into that unseen job market. That's me. And this person is the subject matter expert, and so we'll be able to kind of work with these people, and so it'll be a really interesting, interesting partnership. Also, all of the kind of tools that I've been using and trying out and you know, having affiliate programs, the ones that are really working for me, that could work for other coaches or even work for recruiters. You know, I want to help other companies that are putting out really amazing products that are making our job so much easier. Whether you are a recruiter looking for candidates or you're a coach looking for doing business development, I want to be able to share these tools that I find so wonderful and the people that get the best customer service. And I want to give them a shout out and help them grow. So a little bit of everything, but slow and steady wins the race for me.

Kevin Yee: 34:35

Yeah, so interesting because I see this very giving part side of Eugena, like you're very giving this accessibility side that you want to help everyone, but then there's the challenge of like, hey, I'm actually running a business and I can't live off of 50 cents per hour, right?

Jeanna Malines: 34:50

Exactly. There is the accessibility side. And so for me, you know, my biggest challenge is to learn how to navigate that. And I think like with the eight-week program that I put together, I love it because by the end of the eight weeks, we're not starting their job search after eight weeks. We're starting it and then we're just improving upon everything as we go along. So by the end of the eight weeks, they can take the ball and run. And then once they want, you know, if they haven't in the eight weeks started actually interviewing, they can always come back and be like, ah, I got an interview with this one. I got past the first and second interview. I really would love some help now. This is the big time. And they come back to me and I do, you know, the whole full dossier on the company, on the industry as a whole, on that department, on the people that they're interviewing with. Maybe they're doing a panel and they want to prepare for that. And then they can come back to me and then they get the job and they come back maybe for the 30, 60, 90 transition program. So I want to just kind of, you know, that's one thing I love about I don't want to just be like, oh, here's a resume and here's your new LinkedIn. Bye.

Kevin Yee: 35:47

Yeah.

Jeanna Malines: 35:48

I don't want to be transactional. I'm not a transactional person. I don't operate on that wavelength.

Kevin Yee: 35:52

I want to move into our last segment. I usually play more games, but I know we're coming out time soon. But as someone who's been in the industry for a long time, I like to play this game called overrated or underrated. And as business owners, as entrepreneurs, we probably get a lot of advice. Some of it's solicited, some of it, a lot of it unsolicited sometimes.

Jeanna Malines: 36:10

Oh, so much unsolicited. I mean, I'm just like, are you serious? Another person asking me if I want 50 leads in a month and like those are worse.

Kevin Yee: 36:20

Those are freaking worse emails, dude. Yeah, but I'm kind of curious, like, especially you going official over these last two years, I'm very curious. Like, what is the most overrated piece of advice that you've gotten? And what's the most underrated piece of advice that you've gotten?

Jeanna Malines: 36:33

Can I reframe that to that I've heard job seekers given? Sure. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Overrated. The one page resume. Sorry, if you've been working for 20 years and you haven't been working for the same company for 20 years, there's no way you can have a one-page resume. It's impossible. I've literally gotten resumes from people that were in like six months. And I'm like, just because they're trying to shove it into one. Underrated for job seekers is that it's not effective, directors, that you're just gonna bother them, you're gonna get on the radar screen, they're gonna be like, ugh, I don't want to ever talk to this person. Well, maybe if that's the case, you dodged a bullet, but that it's underrated to identify people in the industry, in the companies you like and network with them, reach out to them. It's so amazing to that people think that it's bad to create that human touch. And even if it doesn't turn into an opportunity, it's another person to network through and continue to build that network and of the people in your industry or the people in your specific, you know, role. So that's been the worst. I think that as a career coach, I think the most overrated, the worst overrated meaning worst I ever got was it doesn't matter if you can, if you think you can help them or not. It's just like if you're a defense attorney and and you think your client's guilty, but you still have to defend. Yeah, I heard had somebody tell me that once. It's all about just getting bodies through the door. I am massively aware of my reputation, you know, the content that I put out sometimes can be a little divisive. Sometimes the content I put on LinkedIn can be a little fun, a little divisive, but a little like, ooh, that was a spicy cake. Not a hot take, the spicy take. This whole idea of just like just getting them through the door. And you know, as an agency recruiter, it used to be, you know, back in the day, you have to make 100 phone calls a day and this and that and blah, blah, blah. And I just don't, I don't work within those parameters. I'm not transactional. I think probably the best advice I ever got when it comes to working with people that are maybe a little hesitant about this, maybe a little, I mean in a job search, how can I, you know, pay somebody to help me with my job search? Was to really just break it down. You know, a lot of the people that I work with are making a lot of money. Some of them are are still in their position, some of them are have been looking but have a runway. And I'm like, really to break it down. I'm like, okay, so you know, my full program is the same cost of one week of your salary. Is that worth it to spend one week of salary to get the right job and get the right job faster and be happier in your career? And really, I mean, I'm not a pushy person at all, but I'm very proactive. If there's somebody that's like, ah, no, not for me, not right now, I'm always following up. Hey, how's the job search going? Is there anything I can help you with? Do you have any interviews coming up? I'll do a quick little dossier for them on who they're interviewing with. You know, make sure that they're, you know, feeling supported, even if they're not my client.

Kevin Yee: 39:21

You know, what's really interesting, the term you used earlier. I've never personally heard this term. It might be very popular, but you said solutions-based hire, right? The whole entire time. And that's kind of the whole theme, right? Like when you're approaching people, you're solutions-based. But I think it's more than just being a solutions-based hire. But we're just your actual being, you're a solutions-based person, and you're a person of service, and you're coming with real, real value, and you're teaching your clients how to do that as well.

Jeanna Malines: 39:47

So there's just a lot of them say, Oh, I don't want to ask for a job. Don't you please don't ask for a job. I don't want you to ask for a job. I want you to introduce yourself because they're a leader in the industry, in your industry, and I want you to let them know that you following their company for a long time, maybe put in something about something you know recent that happened, you know, acquisition or new plan to branch out or you know, to grow or anything, anything. Google it. And then just say, in my career, I've done A, B, and C. And if you'd ever love to have just a basic intro conversation, then I am available at your convenience and I'd love to love to connect with you. That's it. It's something. And people think it's like this, oh my God, big thing. And it's so simple. So when I start them out real gentle like and they see those wins come in, then they start their confidence builds and their confidence builds. And it really comes from a place of confidence, you know. They're like, oh, well, I don't want to blow the opportunity to work for this company because I sent an email to somebody. And I'm like, why would that be your opportunity? And if it did, maybe that's not the kind of culture you want to be in anyway. Because a lot of people are looking, they're the company culture is has really gotten bad here of late. You know, it's important for me to identify what are your non-negotiables? What are they? And we write them down early on. And so later on, when we're looking at job descriptions or we're looking at opportunities, I'm like, okay, well, going back to your non-negotiables, you said you could only travel 15% of the time. This says up to 50%. And when I say up, when I hear up to 50%, I hear more than 50%. So we got to dig down, qualify this job description, make sure, read between the lines, ask the right questions. And so identifying those non-negotiables keeps people focused, not just on landing a job, but on landing a job that is going to be a positive next step in their career, not something where a year later they're coming back to me and going, uh-oh, you were right, which has happened. And I'm like, okay, let's get back in there.

Kevin Yee: 41:45

Oh man, I had a thought, but it just slipped my mind. Last question for you. Clearly, you have so much wisdom in this field. How can people find you and connect with you? Do you know?

Jeanna Malines: 41:55

Yeah, absolutely. There's no one in the world with my name, so it's pretty easy to find me on LinkedIn. So that's a great place to go. You can also go to trajecta.net and you'll see my basically landing page. It just talks about my process, a little bit about what I do. I use a platform called Delenta. It's a coaching platform that I love. It's kind of all in one. You can set up your login and password, and then you can go in, you can see my full calendar, you can literally put something on the books, you know, do a you know 15, 30 minute consultation, see, see if I could help you and where you're at, and then take it from there. But the easiest thing to do is probably to just to find me on LinkedIn or either one, find me on LinkedIn or go to trajecta.net. And you can even if you don't want to put your create a login and password just from that front page, you can book a call with me directly.

Kevin Yee: 42:42

I love it. Well, Gina, there's just so much that I took away. Like I have really messy pharmacist handwriting. Oh, I know.

Jeanna Malines: 42:49

That's what my notes look like too.

Kevin Yee: 42:51

Yeah, it's really bad. But it was it was really enlightening, like everything from the Reddit, like the recruiting hell Reddit, subreddit that you're talking about, to the mental health aspect to really being like solutions focused and even the baby steps and just highlighting the emotional journey looking for a job. I think the biggest thing I took away too from our conversation, we never talked about it, was uh in this time of like a lot of uncertainty for people who are looking for jobs or transitioning, you really do an amazing job at lowering the emotional stakes for people. Because you're talking about like, oh my god, what if they do this like with this what if I blow it all with this email? Or what if I like you mentioned certain scenarios. Yeah, I think that's the real service that you kind of do. It's like you help people like lower the stakes and just like be a person of uh solutions and helping people and integrity and of confidence, so hard to be confident in this job market right now.

Jeanna Malines: 43:48

All you're getting is just trampled on and ghosted, and you know, even when you get there, uh, we put the position on hold, we have an internal candidate, you know, and then this companies that are having like these three-month interview processes, and and it's just like they're so frustrated. And when I said that, you know, potentially this is not just a mental health issue of depression or of rejection or of uncertainty. I actually lost a friend over the summer or in this, you know, thought through notes ago. And he was a podcaster. Actually, the very first podcast I was ever on was his when I opened a brewery back in 2014. And he actually recorded a five-minute podcast to drop the day after. And part of the thing that he talked about was his frustration with his previous company and his career. That was part of what he talked about in that five-minute goodbye. For me, that's when it got really personal because I knew I saw I've heard of it happening. I've heard other coaches say I lost a client, but then it happened to me and I lost a friend. That's when it got real personal for me. So I want to make sure that everybody out there feels supported and feels like that there weren't, especially, you know, in this time and with so many scammers out there, it's really hard to differentiate the good coaches from like the scammers who are like, Oh, your ATS, I have a job for you. Send me your resume. Oh, your ATS or your resume only scored a 55 on the ATS. That's not supposed to no such thing. I'll rewrite your resume for $500 and then they send it to Fiverr, literally. I mean, there's just so much bad, there's so many bad actors out there. It's really hard to differentiate yourself. And so that's one of the reasons why it's important to me as I scale to be able to like one-on-one and not delegate a lot of things that the one the important one-on-one stuff to other people. Right now, I'm delegating behind the scenes stuff to other people.

Kevin Yee: 45:33

Yeah, and you do such a great job at highlighting like the real impact that you make on people, right? It's not just finding people job. There's an aspect of you saving lives behind this.

Jeanna Malines: 45:43

And so Yeah, think of it like that, but even the impact this has on family, the impact this has on marriages, the impact this has on partnerships, the impact this has on so many things. It's not just just themselves, but it's also other people around them.

Kevin Yee: 45:55

I just want to thank you just like for sharing that, you know, and the work that you do, and just also helping other coaches who might be running their practices and like helping them out too. And so I want to thank you for just like sharing your experiences here on this podcast and the work that you do. And in the back of my head, I was like, man, if there was a multiverse or something, I think a Gina would probably be like a scammer detective or like a dating coach or something like that.

Jeanna Malines: 46:22

I mean, honestly, to reach out to hiring, work with as many clients as I can. Being a recruiter and have been like literally finding the impossible candidates has turned me into quite the detective over the years. So I'm all about like, do it putting my, I mean, I of course, like all the white girls, I'm in true crime. So and then with my ADHD pattern recognition, which is my superpower, I ruin everything. I realized in 20 minutes the plot, the sixth sense in 20 minutes. So if I'm watching something and whether it's an episode of Dateline or a British procedural, by the third episode at least, I'm like, got it. It's wonderful because it's pattern recognition. It's like I when I talk about the ADHD superpowers that we have, the pattern recognition, the ability to solve problems by understanding what the problems started in the first place. It's just so cool. So yeah, in a parallel universe, I'll definitely be a detective. I'll be a PI, out there fighting the good fight, solving unsolved mystery cases and scammers. And yeah, I would love that. I would love to just do all that all day. Bring them down.

Kevin Yee: 47:29

Thank you so much.

Jeanna Malines: 47:30

Thank you so much for having me. I really, really, really enjoyed this conversation. And thank you for the opportunity for me to bring my perspective and you know, maybe some ideas that people, other coaches might take, or maybe literal ideas, or maybe some more focus on mental health issues that their clients might be going through.

Kevin Yee: 47:48

It's my pleasure, Gina, to have you on here. And thank you so much again. Pleasure.

Jeanna Malines: 47:51

I will see you soon.

Davis Nguyen: 47:53

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.