Mission, Clarity, and Coaching: Terry Poling’s Journey

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Kevin sits down with Terry Poling, founder of The Poling Group and a veteran of 30+ years in leadership development. Terry shares a pivotal moment from 1995 when a snowstorm stranded him in a hotel for three days—an unexpected pause that led him to define his top professional values and create a personal mission statement that has guided his work for nearly three decades. He reveals how clarity, self-reflection, and intentional values shaped his coaching philosophy, business direction, and leadership impact. Whether you're an established coach or just starting out, Terry’s journey offers timeless lessons on anchoring your career in purpose and values.


Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrylpoling/
Website: https://www.thepolinggroup.com/

Transcript

Terry Poling: 0:00

In nineteen ninety five, I think it was, I think it was ninety-five, I got snowed in at a hotel. I was on a I was on a client visit and I got snowed in and I spent three days in a hotel. And to make best use of that time, what I did was I sat back and took some time to really reflect on what my top needs and values are as a as a professional. And I c with I came up with a list of twelve uh values that that were important to me. And they sit on my credenza in my office uh and they sort of become anchors for me in terms of what I what I do professionally. The second thing was to develop a mission statement. Again, this is a piece of advice I would offer to others uh and it was part of my learning.

Davis Nguyen : 0:44

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Kevin: 1:15

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by Terry Pulling. He's the founder of the Pulling Group. He's been in the coaching industry for 30 plus years. Welcome to the podcast, Terry.

Terry Poling: 1:29

Well, it's good to be here. Thanks, Kevin.

Kevin: 1:31

Man, you podcast, you're telling me about your history, about how you got into coaching. And I was like, dude, you have to stop right away because there's just so much here. So why don't we start off at the origin story, the beginning, the lore? Um, tell me how you got into the coaching business. And yeah, let's start let's start there.

Terry Poling: 1:50

Yeah, I'm sort of a strange duck in that regard. I knew early in my career uh that mid-career, I wanted to establish my own consulting business practice. So early in my career, I spent 18 years inside organizations, primarily in the Boston area, as an organizational development consultant and trainer. And I intentionally moved from different companies to different industries to different assignments intentionally because I knew I wanted to get as much diverse experience in my career as possible from the inside as a way of equipping myself for uh delivery of those services on the outside. And so actually, that's one of the things that I'd offer your listeners. If there's anything from this podcast that is of value to them, I hope it's some of the lessons that I've learned uh along the way. And uh I it kind of starts there. You know, having a vision and a long-term plan for yourself is I have found beneficial.

Kevin: 2:50

Yeah. So did you always know that you're gonna start this business, like from the beginning, or did it kind of develop.

Terry Poling: 2:55

Well, the nature of the business evolved over time, and the scope obviously grew over time as well. Knew that I wanted to uh be my own another piece of advice is to uh to know yourself and to know what you value. And one of the values that's very high in my list is uh a high level of independence and autonomy. I've known that for a long time. So a a key motivator for me was to establish a business where I could be my own boss and uh make my own professional decisions. And uh that really moved me early uh in my career to move towards uh establishing a business or practice for myself. Again, I was in organizational development. There was no such thing as executive coaching back in those days. This goes back a few years. And so I got a second master's degree in counseling psychology, thinking that that's would serve me well in terms of working with leaders, in terms of leadership development. So I I started in what you would call coaching work today, working with leaders in one-on-one situations and offering them coaching around their own development and their own leadership.

Kevin: 4:04

And I'm kind of curious too, because everybody in the coaching business, they always talk about ideal client profiles and all that. And so I'm curious over these last 30 years, one, did that kind of evolve? And like two, like how did you kind of decide who you want to help and the problems that you help those people have?

Terry Poling: 4:22

Yeah, that's that's a a great question and a real consideration for anybody that that's in business for sure. Another value that I hold and have held through my entire career is having positive impact. And it's been my philosophy that if I could have positive impact on uh a single leader, that my impact was exponential because they being a leader would then have subsequent impact on the people who worked with them and for them. And so leadership development has always been an area where I felt that I've been able to have uh significant impact in people's personal lives as well as the business success and business effectiveness. So back at the beginning, the scope was was much smaller. I really started in more the uh consulting and training field and uh worked with businesses around uh organizational projects uh that they had. And what I found in working with leaders on those projects is that it was always beneficial to establish what I called a thinking partnership with them, where there was one-on-one time where we could reflect on what was being decided, what was being implemented, what was happening, and also focus in privacy on the leader's own thinking and the leaders' own behaviors as a way of bringing them to full awareness uh around their own their own leadership. And from there, it it sort of then you know grew into um, you know, coaching, leadership coaching, be one of the three legs on the stool. The other two has been organizational consulting, you know, providing consulting services, and then the third is training. I've done a lot of extensive uh leadership development training over the years.

Kevin: 6:08

And excuse uh if I uh I'm not quite sure. Can you explain what organizational consulting is? Sure.

Terry Poling: 6:14

Yeah, it's a big, it's a bit a mouthful. My background was in uh organizational communications, and I uh had along with the counseling psychology focus in my second master's, I also did a program in organizational studies. And what organizational development practitioners do is they work with the business to um really, in parallel with the mechanics of change, for example, or implementing a transformational change of any kind, they work with the organization to determine the human side of that change and what's necessary in order for, let's say, Six Sigma being implemented in an organization as a practice. What's the cultural aspects of that? What's the human aspects of that? And how do you how do leaders then work with that side of the coin as well as the mechanically prescribed side of change? So organizational development is helping leaders look at organizations as living systems rather than as machines because machines need to be programmed, machines have disposable parts, interchangeable parts where living organisms don't, but or living organisms have the capacity to learn and grow and develop. And so thinking about an organization in that way and uh and helping leaders lead in that way is uh is a big part of what organizational development practitioners do.

Kevin: 7:38

And what are kind of like by focusing on growing this, right? Like I guess so organizational consulting or development, uh, the words that you put it, what are kind of the benefits of that in the organization and what are kind of the consequences of not focusing on that in a business as well?

Terry Poling: 7:55

It's a great question. When you focus on organizations as living systems as opposed to organizations as machines, you recognize that change, for example, has three phases. One is building readiness for change, the second is the change itself, and then the third element, which is oftentimes forgotten, is sustaining change. How do you sustain the changes that you're making? And this can be all kinds of changes. They can be changes in structure, they can be changes in design, they can be changes in operating practices, whatever the case might be. But again, being a living system, organizations need to be prepared for changes in order for that change to happen. I can share with you, I don't I can count the number of times that I've worked with executive teams where it's taken them six months, for example, to decide what the change is going to be or what final decision they're going to make about a particular change. And now again, it's taken them six months to get to that point. So then they announce the change, right? They they put it out as a big formal fanfare, and then they have an expectation that the 10,000 employees who work for them are going to turn around and achieve results in the next two weeks. Well, I refer to that as magic thinking. That's really not the way it works. When you're thinking about organizations as machines, yeah, you can flip switches, you can feed it a program, and it'll respond immediately. But organizations really don't operate that way.

Kevin: 9:25

Yeah, I feel like sometimes we forget about the rollout period of like, especially if it's 10,000 employees, quite a bit of people.

Terry Poling: 9:34

Yeah, well, you've got to move people from understanding the change to agreeing with the change to embracing the change to committing to the change and then acting on that change. And that that's a that's a steep stairway in many many cases. And so understanding what's needed in in supporting that becomes important.

Kevin: 9:53

And this I'm starting to see the side of the human part that you're talking about too, because we all have egos, and if we don't have uh something to we're not ready for change, especially on the human side, then we're never gonna see that change. It's gonna be a lot of resistance and pretty soon. Yeah. So okay, now that we kind of understand the reason why your work is so important, uh, one of the things I'm very curious about is the marketing, and specifically through the lens of your business, because you've been in business for like 30 plus years, right? And so I'm sure you've seen technologies come in, come out. I'm really interested how, like, what does your marketing look like? How has your marketing evolved over time and what does it look like today, I guess?

Terry Poling: 10:36

The constant in my marketing effort has been the significance of word of mouth. My ideal client uh is is um a large organization. Generally work with larger rather than smaller companies. We're talking of you know upwards of 5,000 employees, significant revenues, working with larger companies on longer-term engagements. So most of my assignments in terms of working with an executive and his or her leadership team is generally a minimum of nine to twelve months. Frequently, they run much longer than that. I had a client that I worked with in a thinking partnership for a period of seven years, helping that organization through some really challenging, difficult times. So those first criteria is that they're a larger organization, secondly, that the assignments are longer-term assignments, and thirdly, we have a leader who's willing and acknowledges the importance of learning, not only for themselves, but for the rest of the organization. If they don't have a learning mindset, they're really not my type of client. So they they really need to enter into a partnership that way. Now, back to your marketing question. Because my clients have been long-term, obviously I have very in-depth and intimate sort of professional relationship with these people and leaders talk. So when leaders are looking for assistance and support at that level, they're not going to go onto a website looking for someone or shopping for someone to establish that kind of intimate long-term relationship. They rely on other leaders who have been through that experience to offer suggestions. And so for me, marketing has been primarily word of mouth and introducing leaders to leaders and being part of professional organizations where there's a chance to connect with a network of leaders. So networking has continued to serve me well. I've tried other avenues. I have a website. It's more like a business card than anything else. It gives some credibility and validity to my experience and to the kinds of services that I provide. That's been helpful. It's been valuable. I'm on all of the appropriate social media as a company. The polling group is on LinkedIn, uh, the polling group is on Facebook. And so I'm represented in social media as well. Again, that's you know, creates some interest, some curiosity, and promoting that does the same. But again, I've gotten several clients through that that approach. But again, most of my clients have come to me through uh people who know people.

Kevin: 13:13

Dealt. It's leaders referring leaders to other leaders. We can start from that. Did I know your chain of thought?

Terry Poling: 13:20

Yeah, did I did you pick up the part about the ideal leader or did I talk about that after you had left?

Kevin: 13:27

We did uh talk about the ideal leader and talked about the three things, and then you're getting back into my question about like, yeah, like we we don't it's not like they click on a website or anything like that. It's really uh referral-based. It's usually word of mouth from one leader to another leader. That's where I last uh heard you.

Terry Poling: 13:46

Well, I that's probably where I ended then. That's probably that's probably where I ended the question. As long as I covered the points about larger companies, long-term clients, leaders who are interested in learning.

Kevin: 13:58

Yeah, yeah.

Terry Poling: 13:58

Okay, all right. So we can we can pick up with a new question.

Kevin: 14:01

Okay, cool. Awesome. Um, hold on, let me just uh I assume I assume you edit this. We do, we do for sure. We do, we definitely do. Unless you uh we like the unless we want the article awkward pauses in the podcast, but yeah, we simply edit our It's all good. Okay, so Terry, people are kind of finding out about you, but they're it it sounds like most of your marketing is from word of mouth. So once people start working with you, what does a coaching engagement look like since you're dealing with larger organizations? Earlier you mentioned one-on-one situ like engagements, but I would love to kind of hear how you what these coaching engagements look like.

Terry Poling: 14:43

Yeah, um, well, they they vary, but there's some common denominators. And that's what I'm trying to get my mind around here because I think that's probably what's most useful to the listener. Again, I'm usually introduced to the leader by someone who knows someone, and uh we we have an initial sort of intake conversation around what their vision is, what their values are, what they hope to get out of the assignment, what how how will things look differently when this uh assignment is completed, so that they can actually embody what it is that they're they're talking about rather than reciting it from a piece of paper. And so that intake is important for me to understand how well they understand what they're about to embark on and how well they understand themselves upon entering into that assignment. My first advice to all leaders, and I would also offer this to the listeners of this podcast, is that you know, Socrates was right, know thyself. And self-awareness and self-reflection uh are key to any successful leader. You know, that ability to witness oneself in the moment and understand what one is feeling and what's triggered one and what's what thoughts are coming up, and why am I responding this way to this person or this particular message, and really having sort of a handle on that, and also taking the time to self-reflect, you know, to sit back and think about one's actions on occasions so that one learns from that and one can make changes as they as they move forward. So again, that's back to that learning mindset that I referenced, referenced earlier. And and so the agenda then becomes threefold, usually in these thinking partnerships as I call them. And I f I frequently avoid the word coaching with senior executives. Some have a favorable response to that term, and they understand what coaching is best, you know, and its best qualities. There are others that have sort of a, I don't know, an anemia around the term. And so thinking partnership is one that's more palatable, uh I have found for executive leaders. And so in this thinking partnership, we generally have three agendas. One has to do with the business or the project or the assignment that they're trying to accomplish. As I said before, in many cases, they're attempting to implement something of strategic, you know, strategic significance. They're looking to bring about a change within the organization of some substance. So the coaching conversations, the thinking partnerships talk a lot about progress on the assignment, how things are going. The second agenda that we cover in these conversations is their relational agenda with their leaders and their leadership team. So we're looking at the relational dynamics at play and what's working and what's not working in terms of their relationship with others for whom they're dependent to bring about change within the organization. So the relational agenda is the second agenda. And then the third agenda is their own personal leadership development agenda around what skills, capacities are they trying to build for themselves as a leader. And that can be related to the current performance. So performance can become a conversation. It can relate to readiness, you know, building readiness for another kind of position or a bigger role in the organization or some other organization. So readiness can become a topic of conversation. And then obviously, one that's of concern to all leaders is their potential. Long-term, what is what is my potential? And am I really focusing on that and am I really cultivating that as well? So this developmental agenda is the third. So again, the the business or task agenda, the second is their relational agendas, and the third has to do with their own development agenda.

Kevin: 18:50

By the way, thank you for using the word uh it's so much more accurate than the term uh coaching, to be honest with you. But something something that's on my mind is like one of the major important things was like leaders' willingness to learn. And I can't after you describing the dynamic of a thinking partnership, I can see why that's so important. But did you kind of discover that on day one? Or did that kind of evolve where you kind of realize that later?

Terry Poling: 19:17

Yeah, no, uh again, like a lot of things in one's career, it's it's something that evolves, evolves over time. I had started business as I s as I say, well, I was I was supporting organizations since um, well, before God, actually, it's been a long, long time. But um in 1995, I think it was, I think it was 95, I got snowed in at a hotel. I was on a I was on a client visit and I got snowed in and I spent three days in a hotel. And to make best use of that time, what I did was I sat back and took some time to really reflect on what my top needs and values are as a as a professional. And I c with I came up with a list of twelve uh values that that were important to me, and they sit on my credenza in my office uh and and they sort of become anchors for me in terms of what I what I do professionally. The second thing was to develop a mission statement. Again, this is a piece of advice I would offer to others, uh, and it was part of my learning to establish a mission for what it was that I was doing. And I've had this mission statement for close to 30 years, and it served me well again. And if if I can read it to you, it's you know, it's it's helping leaders achieve greater wisdom, integrity, effectiveness, and fulfillment for themselves, their organizations, and the world at large. And there's a lot in there. I realize that wisdom, integrity, effectiveness, and fulfillment are the uh four key key terms included in that mission statement. And again, it's been a it's been an anchor for me, and that's not something I started with. That's something that I learned over time. The other thing was I had recognized, again, self-reflection and self-awareness being important, that there were four developmental edges that I had in the early thousands. One, I needed to develop more courage, and I can give you reasons for that, but that's one. The second one, I needed greater patience. The third one was compassion, and the fourth one was gratitude. So these four things were in my awareness as four things that I really needed to be mindful of, if you will, in terms of my own development. And you know what they say, be careful what you ask for. Uh, you've heard that that saying. In 2008, the universe hands me this opportunity to live and work in Africa for eight months. And so out of the blue, this opportunity presents itself. And I thought, well, what better opportunity to focus on courage, uh, patience, compassion, and gratitude than working in Ethiopia for eight months, providing leadership development for college new hire college new hires for the telecommunication business. And so I packed my bags. This all happened within like a three-week period. I packed my bags and I moved, I moved to Africa for eight months, you know, supporting, again, the same, the same mission, but just in a different, different environment. And again, that was all part of my learning, part of my learning journey. And I would say out of the four things, the ones that I've developed the most, well, let me say the one that I've developed the least is patience. I still have a hard time with patience.

Kevin: 22:31

Tell me about the courage part, because uh that sound that sounded that's not a typical thing that I normally hear, I guess.

Terry Poling: 22:38

Yeah. Well, first of all, you know, this this is going to sound really funny, but early in my career, especially when I worked internally, that first 18 years that I worked internally, I found myself being intimidated by status and rank. So I found myself frequently in senior leader offices because of the projects that I was working on. But I could feel myself feeling a level of anxiety and a level of concern and self-awareness and all of these other things that come up in the presence of people who had status and rank in an organization. You might say I was intimidated, intimidated by that. And the breakthrough for me, the breakthrough for me was one of the companies that I worked for, uh, I had a bad boss, uh, and I was I was uh a director of organizational development for um a healthcare firm in Boston. Let me give you a quick story here. Uh this person was um pretty erratic in their behavior and could be very kind in one moment, but extremely violent in another. And I was, along with a peer of mine, was called to our boss's office, and he reached across the table and grabbed my colleague by the tie and pulled him across the desk and was shouting into his face about something I don't even remember what the issue was at the time. And and then pushed him back and then started to come to me, and uh and I took one step back and I said, You will not touch me. And I realized in that moment that there was a line, there was a line that I didn't know existed that I was not willing to cross. And that was one of those moments where courage surfaced for me as being a critical element. And I have to share with you, ever since that experience, I have not been intimidated, I have not been self-conscious in the presence of senior leaders. So it was a breakthrough, if you will, for for me. So courage was one of those areas that I said I need to continue to refine and I need to continue to understand and work on for myself as a as a coach, as a trainer, as a business owner.

Kevin: 24:47

Something that strikes me is there's a level of depth I can imagine these thinking partnerships. Like, because you're explaining your own journey, right? And like your breakthroughs, your aha moments. And I can only imagine like the clients that you work with in these thinking partnerships, the level breakthroughs that they're having as well. And something that strikes me is that it sounds like what you're doing seems pretty intimate. And so, how do you manage your fine capacity, like the number of clients that you have and all that? Do you have like other coaches helping you, like or other support? Like I'm very curious about that.

Terry Poling: 25:22

Yeah. Yeah, the scope of the business, as I had referenced earlier, grew with time and MetaDynamics, which was the company in Michigan, we actually provided all of the leadership development training for a German-based company in Canada, U.S., and Mexico. And we delivered over 200 programs a year. And so at that time, I had 24 uh associates working for me with different skill sets. We had instructional designers, facilitators, trainers, coaches, a whole variety of skill sets for that assignment. And that continues to be true today, although you know, metadynamics no longer exist. In terms of the polling group, I partner with a lot of folks. I'm part of several networks, and they support me, and I support them in terms of the work, the work that we do. And so, yes, it's me, it's it's larger than just myself. Relying on on people who you've come to know and trust over the years is um you know an important part of any business uh development plan. Did that answer your question?

Kevin: 26:22

Yeah, it does. It really does. Like it's just like, how the heck do you like manage all these like engagements and all that? And it's just like really interesting.

Terry Poling: 26:31

Well, it's it's that's one of the reasons you're hitting upon one of the major reasons that I that I closed MetaDynamics two or three years ago was I found myself managing that business because it was so intense in terms of the level of training courses that we were providing that I wasn't really in the field practicing much myself. And so I needed to make more space for having direct impact on business leaders. That was one of the reasons that that I closed that business. Your point's well taken. It it was it was pretty demanding business to operate that way. It was great for the money, it was great for you know recognition, it was great for the ego to be able to do all of that, but there was something missing for me. That was a 15-year assignment with this client that I referenced, and when we came up for renewal, I simply said, Oh, it's been a great run, but I'm just not interested in uh continuing this for now. So since then I've been uh doing my own thing with others in terms of the polling group.

Kevin: 27:32

It's beautiful because uh you know, when you shared your kind of like um, I don't know how you put it, your mission statement with those four things like wisdom, integrity, fulfillment, effectiveness. You kind of went back to directly helping those leaders versus like I mean you're still helping, but you're more managing the business and not having that directly. Something I do want to ask you too, because things like leadership oftentimes sometimes leadership it's harder to like price a lot of times. Like with sales and marketing, there's direct KPIs, you can actually like tie it to ROI, but with the value of leadership, sometimes it can be subjective. And so, since you've been in this business for a while, I would I would love to talk about pricing strategy for you, how you price these engagements. Obviously, you don't have to give any hard numbers, but you know, I've heard of different pricing strategies where some people do value-based pricing where they'll price a client based off of the um based off the value that the client receives from that engagement. But then I've heard people kind of do retainers, and there's so many different pricing models. Which ones have you kind of like gravitated to?

Terry Poling: 28:43

I've used them all. I've used them all. Really? I really have. I've done value-based, I've done objective-based, project-based, I've done uh retainer-based. Um I've we've done I've done the hourly thing, you know, uh along the way and experimenting with with that. So yeah, there's been a variety of different models that I've that I've used. Is there one one way that works best? I think that really depends on the nature of your business and the type of client that you're trying, trying to retain. Again, my my target audience are executives. We're talking senior levels here. So pricing, if if it's priced too low, it's seen as not having value. And um that's not an excuse to charge as much as you can. But again, you've you've got to recognize that the contribution that you're making to these people, people's lives is significant. And if they're really in a learning mindset and taking the assignment seriously, they're going to value that time and they're going to pay for it. And so I think that's the place to start is to understand what it is that they're needing and what is it that you're providing for the client and in a sense, what's what's that really worth in the bigger, bigger picture. So yeah, uh I've done it all.

Kevin: 30:00

Who decides how much like what it's worth? Can you kind of dictate that or is that done through the discovery with the client?

Terry Poling: 30:07

Yeah. It's both. And let me let me explain. I have a minimum, right? Because I know I know what my time is worth and I I want to be selective about my time. So I don't want to just spread myself thin on assignments that aren't paying, paying well, and aren't really having the kind of impact that they should have. And so having said that, knowing what my minimum is, then working with the client to understand what the value is for them and what they're trying to accomplish, it becomes a conversation and a price point becomes one of collaboration, creating, co-creating that price point.

Kevin: 30:46

Level of engagements, like having a minimum, what you just explained, yes.

Terry Poling: 30:51

Right. Exactly. And the other the other thing besides fees, you know, again, is the the length of the assignment uh recognize and the frequency by which we meet. Generally, I don't accept coaching assignments that are less than uh, like I said, nine to twelve months in length, again, because we have three agendas which are generally on the table. And if you're going to deal with all three of those agendas, you're talking about some time here. Also, frequency, getting a commitment that one will meet every other week is a key key element to this. So that helps that helps me too, from a scheduling point of view, because then I know how to manage my time and manage my schedule with all clients because of that structure. So that's a that's another key part in addition to pricing.

Kevin: 31:35

That's good to remember too. Um yeah, and I'm sure, yes. Definitely for those three transformations or those three uh I forgot how what you call them, but definitely once in nine to twelve months. But that's also really good for your business because there's some stability of revenue to the business as well. Yeah. That's interesting.

Terry Poling: 31:56

Just to reiterate, most of the time I'm working with these leaders, not only around their one-on-one work in this thinking partnership, but generally there's a parallel assignment that's also at play where we're working on a strategy or we're doing strategic thinking or we're implementing a transformational kind of project. So that that's separate from the uh thinking partnership, that becomes consulting time and that gets priced differently. So my income is supplemented by both the one-on-one work as well as the uh the consulting work that I do with teams and uh leadership groups.

Kevin: 32:33

I see, that's awesome. Okay. So it almost feels like a multidisciplinary like practice. You have the consulting arm, then you have the thinking partnership arm, and maybe some other modalities as well, but that's what it sounds like to me. Yeah, yeah. Something I did want to ask you because you mentioned something really, really interesting, how you shut down your previous business with metadynamics. I guess for the polling group, where do you want the business to take you in the next few years? I can't imagine you having any desire to scale massively. But do you have any like secret dreams no one knows about? Like I'm very curious about this next season of the Yeah, no.

Terry Poling: 33:11

I I'm moving towards what's the word, partial retirement. Uh I guess is one way of of phrasing that uh because of my age. And you know, I've I've put in a lot of time in my career, and uh now to a place where you would some people refer to it as third wave. So I have some things that I want to do and accomplish in the next phase of my career, and writing a book is one of those, that's a big, big piece, and that's going to take some time um to pull pull off. I've started that process, you know, in my mind, and I've uh gathered a lot of notes on that, but to actually sit back and put pen to paper in terms of writing the book, I haven't done that yet. So I need to make time for that. So I have been working with another gentleman, I've been a mentor for another business owner for a period of time. He's done work with me, he's partnered with me for close to 10 years now. And so what's what's happening is I'm beginning to shift my client work uh in his direction so that as new clients come in or new assignments come in, they can fall under his business model and under his leadership, and then I would be a support um person for that assignment, which is going to be necessary for a while because clients, you know, don't uh the clients want me to be involved to some extent, and so that's gonna be necessary for a while. But that's the plan is to actually migrate my business to him. And you know, there's some shared ownership around that, and there's some investment and whatnot involved in that. So it's it's a win-win situation.

Kevin: 34:49

Yeah, I was gonna ask you like, do you ever have desires to sell your business? But it already sounds like you have a legacy plan.

Terry Poling: 34:56

Yeah, it's more of a legacy plan and a transitional plan. So yeah.

Kevin: 35:01

As you're approaching this next season of your business in life, what are some challenges that you're noticing?

Terry Poling: 35:07

Like in this, yeah, um, challenges shift as as one goes through through life. The first part of life, what was important to me was a sense of purpose and a sense of identity, and those those were important to me. I also said that a sense of meaning and a sense of belonging was important, but less so. The first half of my career was around identity and purpose, which I think is is appropriate. And I this is a message for your listeners is that you know, if you're in the first half of your career, having an identity, establishing an identity, and that's all around marketing, for example, it's all around self-awareness, it's all around those things, having an identity and also a sense of purpose, knowing what you're about and what you're trying to accomplish and what you're trying to put out in the world, and and being, and again, that's where the mission statement, that's where the values and everything that I referred to earlier were so critical. In the second half of my career, it's it's more around finding meaning and belonging, a sense of belonging in the world. And so as I'm as I'm approaching the third wave, it's it's less about acquisition and acquiring. It's it's more about letting go and shedding certain aspects of my identity that I've taken a long time to build, right? And I've held very tightly to those core pieces of who I am. And so now that's changing, and being able to shed some of that and let go of some of that is a challenge. It's a challenge. I think it's a challenge for any business person or any professional that gets to a certain point in their life where they've really valued what they've done and now they're looking to do something different. So letting go is is uh is a major challenge.

Kevin: 36:46

Aaron Powell If you're comfortable sharing, I'd love to ask you like what's one thing that you need to let go but is really, really difficult for you.

Terry Poling: 36:54

Yeah. Saying no to some referrals uh is is is tough, especially when they're you know exciting, sound like exciting opportunities and whatnot. So uh the way in which I'm letting go of that is not to say no to that referral, but to assist in bringing that referral to fruition for others. And so uh I'm still I'm still engaged, um, but in a sense, have partially let go because it would no longer be my business. It'll be somebody else's business. And so that's hard. That's hard, hard to do. Also letting go of a busy schedule, you know, the momentum is is a wonderful thing. Inertia is a wonderful thing because it carries us, carries us far and provides energy when we may not have the energy. But at the same time, when you need to put the brakes on a little bit, uh that that inertia can uh can be a challenge. So yeah, slowing down and uh taking more time for myself and my family is something I definitely want to do and something I value, but it is a challenge.

Kevin: 38:01

Do you feel like you'll ever retire, like completely? Because I I the reason why I asked this, by the way, because I get a sense that you love your work. And it's almost like, yes, I know you're slowing down, but do you think you're ever gonna stop?

Terry Poling: 38:13

I get that question from my wife all the time. Are you ever going to fully retire? I think your observation and your sense is correct here. If there's the right assignment, if there's the right project, if there's the right, I'm gonna continue to play in the field, right? I'm gonna continue to be involved to some ex some extent. As long as, you know, I'm adding value and as long as I'm still able to have impact in ways that I think are serving individuals and the world, you're right. It's hard to walk completely away from that. Probably not. I probably probably won't fully retire.

Kevin: 38:45

That's so interesting. Terry, I love to play, we're coming near the end of the podcast, but I would love to play a few games with you if you're open to it. The first one is a storytelling game, and I want to do it through the lens of business investments because as you know, a lot of coaches, lot entrepreneurs, they invest to things like coaching, training, marketing, team members, a lot of different things, right? And so what I'm gonna do, just like a therapist, I want to kind of prompt a phrase and you just tell me the first thing that comes to mind and if there's a story associated with it. Okay.

Terry Poling: 39:16

All right, fair enough. Okay, cool.

Kevin: 39:18

First business investment, you remember Administrative Assistant. How long ago was that?

Terry Poling: 39:23

35 years ago.

Kevin: 39:24

Is that uh administrative assistant still with you today?

Terry Poling: 39:28

Um we're still friends, but uh that person served me for uh 33 years and uh she is retired and uh uh doing doing her own thing. But that was that was uh that was the first. The second was uh acquiring office space. Yeah. So those were two investments that happened very early uh after I left. You know, I said I was internal for 18 years. When I made the decision to start a business, uh it was like jumping off a cliff and hoping that something would happen before I hit bottom. And I did fortunately have a client assignment at that time, but it was significant enough that I was daring and rented office space and hired an assistant. So that's more than one word, but those were two early investments that I made.

Kevin: 40:14

Last business investment you made?

Terry Poling: 40:16

The last investment to attend a um integral workshop earlier this year in uh Colorado. I have throughout my career identified for myself a significant conference or a seminar or a developmental workshop to attend. And I've done that every year consistently for 30 plus years. And so the last I did that as recent as last spring. It's something that I would advise all professionals to do. Best business investment we made. Well, I think it's related to the latter. It's an investment in oneself to develop one's and continue to expand one's knowledge base, to expand one's skill set, to expand one's thinking, to continue to feed that you know learning mindset that I've spoken about a couple of times, I think is the best investment I've ever made.

Kevin: 41:06

Is there a specific investment that comes to mind? Or is it just a general theme of continuous uh Well I'm a prolific reader.

Terry Poling: 41:12

I mean, I read a lot and I buy lots of books, and so I I do I do read a lot, and then that's related to this, you know, personal development that I that I've been talking talking about as well, as workshops and seminars and those kinds of those kinds of things. So from my point of view, I've even a book I didn't like that I usually found something of value in it um that you know has expanded me in some ways. That's that's been a a costly it's been a costly piece, but it's been uh beneficial.

Kevin: 41:45

And uh last prompt. Worst business investment that you kind of wish you got your worst investment.

Terry Poling: 41:51

Um I invested uh three years in a company that I should have left earlier. This is when I worked internal, and that's something I would offer your listeners is do not work for a bad boss uh longer than you need to, and you shouldn't have to. My don't waste your time thinking that this person will change or that the circumstances will change in your favor. You really need to cut bait and get out. So that was an investment of three years in retrospect that there were things I gained from that. I gained, you know, that as I said, this was the same boss that I was referring to earlier. I gained, you know, a sense of courage in that that assignment. But it was all in all, it's not three years that I'd like to repeat or three years that I would do over again. Well, the consistency has been, you know, investing in oneself and one's development. That's that's important. From a financial point of view, save and save early and build some uh, you know, investments financially for yourself and put a portion of the money back in the business, but you have to put a portion of the money into your future as well. I have the luxury of, you know, not needing to work after all these years. I think I was wise around my financial investments, and you know, I feel secure in in that regard, and and it takes a lot of pressure off, and I think this is where a lot of consultants and a lot of coaches get into trouble. They uh they panic and they will accept assignments that prove not to be beneficial. So actually what I was saying earlier, don't spend time with a bad boss or a bad company is related to this. Don't you know, don't don't put put time in there or money into things that don't benefit you long term. But you do have to you do have to invest in the business and you do have to invest in your future financially. Otherwise you'll panic.

Kevin: 43:48

Last question for you. Final advice from you. I'm sure over the years you've gotten a lot of advice, some of it good, some of it probably not so good, some of it solicited, some of it unsolicited. So this next section is called overrated, underrated. So, what's the most overrated piece of business advice that you've gotten? What's the most underrated piece of advice that you want?

Terry Poling: 44:09

Yeah. Especially over the last 20 years, I have heard I don't know how many times from so many people that I needed to get certified as a coach. I needed to go through the whole process of getting certified. And as I was sharing in the story earlier, my background in coaching was from a counseling psychology background. I I've got all of my education. Now I did do a certificate program through the University of Michigan, which was a counseling and coaching program. And I also uh got certified through uh the Institute of Independent Business, which was another way of developing business coaching capacities. But I have not been certified as a leadership coach or as a as an ICF uh coach. And I I've been told that you know I wouldn't get clients unless I had that pedigree, unless I had that. And so that's been way overrated in my experience. The executives that I dealt with, they could they really don't care. They really are not looking for that pedigree, and so that's been overrated advice for me. I've done well without it, and I think others can as well. So and then you're saying underrated. Underrated advice. Well, yeah, uh being humble and being open to mentors that you may not expect, and learning from your clients, that's that's probably been underrated in terms of its importance in my life. And so you never know where the best piece of advice or the best thought will come from. And being open to that and receptive to that is something that I've heard repeatedly, and but I think it's been underrated.

Kevin: 45:39

Terry, last question for you. How can people find you and connect?

Terry Poling: 45:42

My website is the pollinggroup.com. Again, it's the pollinggroup.com, and that's you can go directly to my website and you can access or contact me through that. I'm on LinkedIn and my contact information is on LinkedIn. You can look for me by name, or you can look for me through the polling group on LinkedIn. So those would probably be the best, best two ways to uh to find me. Terry, there's just my phone number's available and and both of those.

Kevin: 46:10

Both there's just so much in here, right? I think the most important thing is like, man, it really shows that like more than just the systems and the tactical stuff, I can really see how you like really impact people's lives. And I think that that thing that you said earlier about helping leaders achieve uh wisdom, integrity, uh fulfillment, effectiveness. It really comes to play. And honestly, like you said, you could have retired way sooner. You could probably retire now. You don't really need to work, but I can tell that you really do love this work. So I just want to say, Terry, thank you for the work that you do. Thank you for just coming onto a podcast and openly sharing your wisdom too. So many people are gonna benefit from it because we covered a lot, a lot of the business stuff, but more so, like what I'm taking away is the why, your why of why you do thinking partnership. So thank you so much, Terry.

Terry Poling: 47:06

Yeah, it's been my pleasure, and I hope that uh what I've offered here has been a benefit to the listeners because that's why I wanted to do this. Thank you for the opportunity to uh share my story with others.

Kevin: 47:17

Pleasure is mine. Thank you, Terry.

Davis Nguyen : 47:19

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit join purplecircle.com.