“How Sasha Cagen Attracts High-Level Clients Without Selling Out”

 In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Kevin sits down with Sasha Cagen, founder of Sasha Cagen Coaching and creator of the transformational practices “pussy walking” and “pussy breathing.” Sasha shares her candid thoughts on pricing esoteric coaching work, navigating marketing challenges in a world dominated by social media, and her growing client base of high-level executives, founders, and political figures.



Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sasha-cagen-6566974/
Website: https://www.sashacagen.com/

Transcript

Sasha Cagen: 0:00

I mean, I would say that's evolving and that can always change. But right now and until now, I just charge the way that I do as a coach because I guess the way that I see it at this moment is like pussy walking is one of the things or pussy breathing is one of the things I teach my clients, but I'm also teaching them tools that I don't know. I mean, possibly I should be pricing myself way higher and being be to value the esotericness of it. But I guess it comes back to the marketing challenge. Like if I knew how to get into like the top.

Davis Nguyen : 0:34

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Kevin: 1:05

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by Sasha Kagan. She is the founder of Sasha Den Coach Kagan Coaching, been a coach for over 13 plus years. Welcome to the show, Sasha.

Sasha Cagen: 1:20

Thank you for having me.

Kevin: 1:22

Yeah. You know, one of the first questions I was asked by guests is how did you get started as a coach and what made you want to turn into a business?

Sasha Cagen: 1:30

So I already had a very established career when I decided to become a coach. I had been a writer and published books with Harper Collins and Simon and Schuster. And my books, they weren't self-help books, but they had this effect on people of making them feel seen and affirmed for who they are. So I already had this kind of dimension of helping people through my writing. My my first book is called Porky Alone. And it got a lot of attention when it came out in 2004. Um I was on CNN with Anderson Cooper and New York Times. Basically, I was everywhere. Except for Oprah, I was everywhere. Completely ubiquitous at that time. And then I had this phase of my career where a friend of mine asked me to co-found a startup with him because he could see that I was good at marketing, because I had been very good at marketing my books and connecting with people in a deep way. So I helped him co-found a street fashion startup called Style Mob, which was something that happened right when Facebook and Twitter were getting off the ground. So we were kind of part of that Web 2.0 moment. And we had that hockey stick growth that all of those investors are wanting to a certain degree of like hockey stick growth means rapid growth. And that was in part due to the brand and the marketing that I was in charge of. We sold that company and then I worked to work for an ad network that bought us. And basically, I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I'm a free spirit. And working for an internet ad network absolutely killed my spirit because the work for me was very meaningless and actually quite harmful. Like I have a heavy critique of social media and the advertising industry and how it shapes our behavior as human beings. And you know, I'm a writer and I saw it was taking away my own ability to focus and write. So I didn't feel good working in that industry. And it's also a very male-dominated industry in Silicon Valley. And I felt like I was being a man. Like I had to, I was kind of switching from the feminine aspects of my career that have been autistic and connecting with people to I'm a product manager, you know, talking to fancy people in conference calls, going all over the country. And I'm getting paid a lot more money because I'm in this kind of prestigious role that mostly people who went to MIT or who have technical backgrounds and business backgrounds have. And I could fake it basically because I'm good at languages. So I picked up the tech language just like I pick up foreign languages. But anyway, I found it very depressing and I really lost myself in Silicon Valley. And I'm actually writing a memoir that tells this story, and it's the beginning of the jumping off point of the journey that brought me to be life and executive coach. So basically at that time, I was also feeling the effects of screen addiction. Like everything we're dealing with now was really coming on strong at that time in 2008, of you know, looking at our phones all the time, looking at TV or the computer. I basically had this calling to go to Brazil. I wanted to go travel. I wound up taking a trip to Brazil while I was working there, and that led me to do a sabbatical where I left it all behind. This was a huge decision in my life that was so different from anything I ever expected to do at 35 or 36, which was give up my apartment, leave Silicon Valley, go establish myself in Brazil, in Rio, because I had this vision of their happiness and I saw them in their bodies and connected with their bodies. And I felt like we in Silicon Valley were just in our heads, and it resulted in a life that I didn't really want to live that wasn't happy. So basically I did that. And through that experience that turned into something I never could have predicted, I wound up discovering the dance of Tango. I wound up moving to Buenos Aires and living there for six years. And through all of that, I became a big fan of the idea that in order to be our most powerful selves, we need to connect with our bodies in a deep way. And that was what I was doing all that time. I was, you know, kind of getting out of the path of what was supposed to happen for someone like me who had been, you know, gone to a prestigious college, worked hard, published books, start a company, supposed to keep going up the ladder. But if I listened to my body, I knew what was true for me was something else. And so I wound up doing a lot of stuff with somatic work, with the body, and also with sexual energy. And this is the part that we can talk about that I find super interesting because now I'm coaching women executives who are doing just what I was doing, but some of them are even bigger. They're bigger actually than I was in terms of their stature in the tech world. And I'm helping them connect with their bodies to be more empowered in their jobs because we have a lot of brilliant women who are so smart and so prepared, and they know so much, but they don't necessarily feel the confidence because of a million reasons. Because they're working in a male-dominated sector to begin with. And so there are many ways that they can second guess themselves. So it's very satisfying for me because I'm actually taking all I've been learning in this 15 years of wandering with somatic and sexual energy stuff and helping women who are on the inside now who are feeling challenges with talking to investors or talking to partners who are not respectful or, you know, feeling like they're not owning the conversation. So it's very fun, actually. And these are women who are about the age that I was then. Some of my clients are older too, but I really enjoy that I get to be this person who is in the regular world, left it for South America, first semantics, tantra, Taoism. And somehow I'm inserting this back into the business world, which I find satisfying.

Kevin: 7:13

Yeah, that's really interesting too. There's just so much I relate, especially like the masculine and feminine energy and how especially women are like, especially in the tech world, and you know this better than I do, but feels like it's very tech bro and very masculine demon uh industry. And it's really fascinating to see you go down to Brazil or eventually to Tango and stuff too. And there's something so beautiful about like the somatic that's not really talked about so much in Western culture. I definitely feel it for sure, like because I love murder yoga, aka jujitsu, also very popular in Brazil. It's a very masculine version of like it's like I also do yoga, so there's like yoga is definitely more feminine, jujitsu way more masculine because of the combat sport, but very similar dynamic there. But I do want to go back to something that you're saying before. And you're saying how you help uh women, especially in kind of like the old life that you were in before. And so where do you feel like the challenge for these women are? Do you feel like it's because they're forced into this really masculine energy? What are your thoughts about that?

Sasha Cagen: 8:22

I mean, in in this way, they have the problem that many women and many people have. Like, and I also like to say I think men also struggle with insecurity and they're finding nerfs in various ways too. But my focus is helping women. So, you know, my my personality type of the people I tend to attract, they're the preparers. They know how to do really good notes and talking points before going on the media or to give an interview or to lead a board meeting or all of these things. They're extremely conscientious. But then what happens is that there's so much energy in their heads around this preparation that this easily goes negative because mainly when we think, think of things that are going to go wrong. This is the survival instinct of our evolutionary brain. And so when I work with them, a portion of it is talking about like what are their fears or on a cognitive or emotional level, what's holding them back. But I also find it really important to help them connect with the rest of their bodies. And almost like there is this really interesting part that I found through all my work with dance and sexuality, and this actually has to do with performance in general, and maybe even jujitsu, that there's a lot of energy in the genital zone. So, like I'm ending right there. And it could be called sexual energy, but what I'm really teaching is how you can tap into that energy in your body and move it in a way that has nothing to do with sex, but has to do with the energy in your body and your charisma and also draining energy out of the overactive head that inevitably is going to tell you that you're not doing things. Like my clients are very sensitive to the other person, and they're so anticipating that person's critique or rebuttal, or you know, there's so much thinking about them. So I'm really teaching them how to bring awareness back in their bodies and draw energy down so that they just show up more spontaneously because they're like, they already trained for the Olympics. Like they are really good. Like my clients are not the people who don't know what they're talking about. They do, but they watch other people who have no idea what they're talking about look so confident and they're like, oh, this isn't fair. I actually actually don't know what they're saying. I do. So I'm I'm playing sometimes teaching them dance and performance techniques that basically don't get taught to people. And there are things that like someone who danced with Martha Graham or someone who dances Tango will figure out through all that study. So I'm sort of bringing that body-based study to an authentic leadership, like how to show up as yourself. Because yeah, then the women, and this is just the tip of the iceberg for why it's difficult for women. I don't want to ignore all the other social factors. Yeah, male-dominated workplace, few women at the top, maybe it feels competitive with the other women, not having a safe space to talk about these things. And, you know, just living in a hyper competitive world that is, you know, difficult. And those kind of never good enough feelings are very endemic for top performers. So the the approach is a kind of a way of short circuiting.

Kevin: 11:30

Yeah, I love it. You know what's really interesting? The sexual energy that you're talking about, and especially the bodywork somatica therapies, I feel like it got really lost in the West. And when we look at traditional practices, like right now I'm in Asia and I'm I'm discovering, you know, like I'm going around Southeast Asia and just talking people, there's definitely more um, I can't put my finger on it, but I feel like there's more feminine, masculine polarity. Whereas in the West, sometimes it just feels like men are had kind of more feminized and women have been more masculinized. Um and everybody's kind of I don't want to say everyone, right? That's a generalization, but a lot of my friends who are kind of in corporate America, they actually feel really miserable because of that a lot of times too. That's what I find at least. Yeah.

Sasha Cagen: 12:20

But I think that there's definitely something about that, about how the US, probably the UK, and maybe a lot of Europe, yeah, they're distant from things that are kind of more natural and on the surface of other societies. Like I gave a talk at an entrepreneur space in my city, and there was about this body-mind connection, and we were talking about listening to your body to make business decisions. Like that, you know, the question was out in my talk of like, have you ever listened to your body to decide about something in business? So it could be like taking a job or not taking a job. And there was a guy from Japan in the group and the audience, and he had some word, I can't remember what it was, but it was a word in Japanese culture that described body-mind connection for decisions or something like that. It's like, I think it's just more known. Sometimes I feel like I'm teaching something that is so common sense, but yet is so esoteric in the US at this point. Yeah.

Kevin: 13:15

Definitely, definitely. It's kind of crazy when I introduce books like the body keep score or something like to certain people, or like why people cry during yoga sometimes during a SOAS release, or even like when you're getting a massage. I watched this uh girl on Instagram and she's like releasing certain areas and people are just sobbing. People don't know why, but when we look at these like old like practices, but so common, it's not only with one culture, it's all over the world, which is really, really interesting. I do want to talk about something because you did mention that it felt almost like kind of like this foreign concept for people. And so, as you are kind of working with these women, how are they finding out about you? And are they super aware of these practices already? Or are you kind of having to educate and introduce?

Sasha Cagen: 14:06

Yeah, they're definitely not looking for Taoist sexual energy practices for confidence at work. That would be like a really rare person who knew that was even possible. Yeah, that it's a really interesting question. And I'm always testing people to see like what is their openness to this kind of thing, like, you know, because some of my clients are dancers, some of them just feel sensitive and like it's always been a negative thing because a lot, mostly people get told that you're too sensitive, right? Or like you feel butterflies or nerves. So this is a liability. You should not feel these things, but it's work. Oh, this is a virtue. Actually, feeling sensitive is a good thing. But yeah, these people, they find me through Google, they they type in executive coach and leadership and confidence. And, you know, they find their way to me. And then, you know, I call these practices pussy breathing and pussy walking, and I have this whole body of work around pussy breathing and pussy walking. And I'm like, is this okay with you? You know, I'm very permission-based because I also know I you choose that language for a reason, not just to be provocative in a good way to get people to think about women's bodies and sexuality. Mostly people are open to it, but I will say it's funny, like, there's also a negative on that side. Like once a former client asked me to come and speak at her company for like Wednesday morning breakfast, you know, they would have like a different person come in. And then their HR person looked on my website and saw pussy walking and she canceled it. So it's a very interesting space that I'm in where I've chosen to be provocative. And some people are really gravitated and some people are really scared. And I get it. I get why they're scared. But if they would look for a second and actually dive in, they would understand, I think.

Kevin: 15:52

Yeah, it feels so taboo sometimes. What's really interesting, because like if you type in pussy walking or pussy breathing, most likely that's probably not you can't really do social media or ads or anything like that, too. And so, like, what kind of like marketing are you doing? Are you doing mostly blogs or like how do you like how do people get into your ecosystem?

Sasha Cagen: 16:14

If yeah, I know. I I back and forth about that because pussy walking is really weird because people love it, but they are afraid to like it. They're you know they're just afraid of something that might happen to them if they like something that has some other people. I think I attract the people who like it but are not ready to like it. Like that's my people. So I think that I I have to find other ways to just it's kind of like just thinking of myself at if I'm at a networking event. I'm probably not gonna say pussy walking the first thing. Like I need to let them know. I'm like, I invented something called pussy walking. People are like, whoa. So it's like in my online presence, I sort of establish myself just the way I am today, that I'm a serious person, have this whole creative, publishing, entrepreneurial background, and I'm a women's empowerment advocate who does somatic work and look at what I've discovered that could help you on the job. And it's really a secret superpower. Like that's the thing. The people who are brave enough to work with me are gonna, I it's like I want to set people up. It's like, you're the best, but you're gonna crush it in the workplace. But actually, the courage to explore these things will bring you to places that most people aren't going and that are thinking very enriching.

Kevin: 17:26

Yeah. It's really interesting the things that you're bringing up. And I think about so you're you're in the feminine space, but a lot of these topics are actually very popular in the masculine space too, where you know, a lot of men feel kind of isolated and don't have other men to talk to. And it's like the commonality I see is like these safe spaces that practitioners like yourself are creating as well. And I think it's really great. Now, one of the other things I want to talk about too, we did touch upon the marketing a bit, but one of the things that a lot of coaches struggle with are things like with pricing, and money is also a very taboo type of thing. Of course, uh Sasa, you do not have to give any hard numbers. But what is your thoughts about pricing? Because your work is so esoteric sometimes. And, you know, like do you charge packages? Do you do some sort of value bit? I don't like how do you charge something that is so esoteric in most people's eyes?

Sasha Cagen: 18:20

I mean, I would say that's evolving and that can always change. But right now and until now, I just charge the way that I do as a coach because I guess the way that I see it at this moment is like pussy walking is one of the things or pussy breathing is one of the things I teach my clients, but I'm also teaching them tools that I don't know. I mean, possibly I should be pricing myself way higher and being be to value the esotericness of it. But I guess it comes back to the marketing challenge. Like if I knew how to get into like the top rooms in the world of women leaders who would die for this, then I could have the freedom to charge whatever I want. But the the matter is I'm also a regular person who's interacting with regular people. Like I do have very high profile clients. Like I'm blown away now. Like I say who they are because it violates confidentiality. But like I have national politicians from major Western countries. I have like founders of leading AI companies right now who are like being fed by, you know, many in many different arenas. Like they're talking to me about meeting famous people and being confident within. So I'm like, wow, this is really cool. And like I would love to reach more of those people. And I was just asking the question yesterday to a friend of like, God, it's so crazy. I have so many amazing people at this level, and I'd love to work with even more. So I'm actively, I Diana Chapman, who is a mentor of mine who um runs something called the Conscious Leadership Group. So she's sort of a big person in Silicon Valley tech coaching circles. So I just emailed her a short line yesterday of like, I'm doing this amazing pussy breathing and pussy walking work with women tech executives. How do I find more? So literally I'm in like trying to figure that out.

Kevin: 20:11

Yeah. But one that I'm noticing, at least online, especially on Instagram and stuff, I'm not on TikTok or anything like that, but is that more of this like feminine work is coming up than my friends' algorithms? And I'm starting to see the popularity of it a lot more than before, especially with the newer generation, versus like I'm like millennial, but like with Gen Z and stuff, like it's on the rise and stuff. I'm kind of curious. Have you noticed the same trend?

Sasha Cagen: 20:37

Do you mean your women friends are seeing more feminine stuff and men too?

Kevin: 20:41

Or men, men go on the masculine side, but since I studied the internet, gendered content about feminism. Yeah, and like I'm noticing like a lot of my female friends, they're like starting to um host divine uh like the divine feminine like gatherings and stuff like that.

Sasha Cagen: 20:57

Yeah, right.

Kevin: 20:59

Really interesting. Yeah.

Sasha Cagen: 21:00

It is really interesting, and I noticed that as well that this idea of the divine feminine has been catching on. And it's like, yeah, it's I have a funny story about that actually. And I'll I'll tell this story because it's too funny to not tell. I dated someone um a month ago in April, so four months ago for a month, and among the problems that happened in this month-long relationship, one of them was him being intimidated by my divine feminine energy and telling me that numerous times. And so this was an interesting experience because I'm like, well, gee, I really don't know what I'm supposed to do about that. A before that, I want to say I'm not always so sure what divine feminine energy means. So most people, when they look at my work, they're like, of course you're about the divine feminine. You teach pussy walking, you teach women how to connect with their their and their sexual energy as a kind of expansion and confidence. So, how could that not be divine feminine? I don't know. Is our pussy God? I mean, maybe it's sort of like I'm a writer, so I like to really understand words. But I think it's a cool thing that women tap into what femininity is for them. What I get a little bit concerned about is when there's some stereotype about what is feminine and what is masculine. Because I've equally had clients come to me and be traumatized by some of this marketing material about what is masculine and what is feminine and people feeling wrong or like they're not what it's supposed to be. And so I mean, I grew up, I'm a Gen X person. For me, a woman can look many different ways. Like, yeah, like I think I look feminine, but a woman doesn't have to be curvy or have long hair or be any particular way to be in her feminine essence. I I to promote that it's very individual. So it's like if I am divine feminine, if I am bringing that forward, I just want people to know that can look like them and not a stereotype.

Kevin: 22:58

Yeah, definitely gets very tricky when you mix marketing into it and you're like selling a shop or something like that, too, where it feels sometimes the marketing material feels very weaponized. I I don't know about the feminine era, like because I don't get targeted for that, but definitely the masculine things, like I'm starting to see that.

Sasha Cagen: 23:17

Like I have literally had a guy come to me for coaching, and the primary problem he wanted help with was feeling inadequate in his masculinity to be wanted as a man in the dating world in Silicon Valley. So weaponized, absolutely. This is like just counter to my values. Like I left Silicon Valley because I didn't like their values. I'm not gonna practice values I don't like in my marketing. Like I fear is a very strong marketing message, but I try to make my marketing messages more about aspiration or fulfillment or what you want because I just don't want to make people feel inadequate. Like it's my thing.

Kevin: 23:54

Frequency emotions versus lower frequency type of things.

Sasha Cagen: 23:59

I mean, it works, of course. Like I met a guy recently at a tango event who was very high at consumer reports magazine and the publishing side. So he had tested ad messages his whole life. So we were talking about the number one message that works is fear. Like that's what gets people. And then the second most effective was fulfillment. So I'm trying to stick with the fulfillment in like unless the fear is like a realistic look. Like for my case, if I was going to do a marketing message around these executive women that I'm enjoying working with, it'd be like, are you worried that you might not be living up to your potential because you're getting it away? Like, actually, that would be real and it it's true. And but I don't like to poke too well because it just doesn't feel right.

Kevin: 24:44

Who knew that uh amygdala hijack would be so profitable?

Sasha Cagen: 24:48

Yeah, back to the brain and the body, and like we're all one thing. That's the thing. It's common sense. Of course, it's all one thing. Like we are bodies.

Kevin: 24:57

Yeah, and I I want to switch topics for a second because we're talking about this trend of like feminine, at least awareness of the feminine and masculine energy, where I didn't feel like there was this level of awareness probably like years ago, like even like five years ago, like super popular right now. And so, as you're thinking about your coaching business, right? Where do you want your coaching business to take you in the next few years? Do you have any like secret dreams, ambitions no one knows about? Do you want to kind of scale it? Because a lot of people need help with this.

Sasha Cagen: 25:28

Like, I'm very curious about your thoughts about I do want to find some way to scale. And I've been experimenting about that. You know, I've I've in group programs and they've been only small groups. So I would say I'm actively in the experimentation phase to find what that is. With the the that we've been talking about, the executive women. How does that scale? I'm not really sure, to be honest, because those people are so busy. They're like one challenge of working with those people is like, my god, it's hard to get on their calendar. Like they're very insanely overscheduled. So they don't have a lot of time for their personal development often. Like, one thing I'm really helping them do is drop in there. So I like in terms of scaling something, I'm I'm thinking clue, like which aspect am I scaling? Like, is it the quirky alone work or like the people who are attracted to me because in the message of self-love and self-connection in this world that tells you you have to be in a couple to be okay, like that's the quirky alone kind of world that I have. And then this sort of pussywalking sexual energy with women of all kinds. I'm kind of just figuring it out, honestly. I'm doing like some group stuff with Quirky Alone, and I do really enjoy the group stuff because there's just so many, there's so much negative stuff that we all have in our head, and when people are able to compare notes about that, they just it's a lot of healing that happens in groups.

Kevin: 26:59

Yeah. It's it's interesting too because when most people think scaling, right, they think about increasing the amount of leads to a business. So either like, you know, buying it through ads or building it through uh social media or like borrowing it, kind of like being on podcasts like this, or using other people's audiences. But what was really interesting in the beginning of the podcast, you said I have a heavy critique on social media. And so I'm like wondering, like, well, yeah, like if you have plans to scale, maybe let's take revenue, for example. If you're planning to scale your revenue and stuff, or the marketing efforts, how does that work? Do you hire someone for it since you you're against it? Do you kind of embrace it? I'm very curious about your thoughts about that.

Sasha Cagen: 27:43

It's a really good question. And I've I've thought about that a lot because I have felt kind of handicapped with myself having this conflict, you know, that like we show up most passionately when we're in alignment with something. So the fact that I have philosophical problems with what Instagram is doing to our attention has been a problem because it's like been hard to show up enthusiastically. I still think it's like absolutely insane that we are so dependent on these platforms, also because they change all the time. We have no control. So I've been a big fan of my newsletter, is my primary communication with people because at least like I control the email addresses and you know, I just feel like I'm putting more energy into Instagram now. I'm showing up as myself. But it's taken me years to feel more like I can put aside that disagreement. It's it's the master's tools, like the Audrey Lorde, I think, feminist black thinker. We can't use them, I guess her. I hope I didn't get this wrong, but we can't use the master's tools to dismantle the house. So it's kind of like that. Like I do feel caught in this web of capitalism, but we're all in it. Oh, I don't know. But I I d I'm a writer too. So I also, on the other hand, I try to dedicate energy to writing deeper things, to writing essays, because then people connect with them in a deep way and they reach out to me. And philosophically, I like just being part of something that is thought-provoking and like helps cultivate attention as opposed to like making us crazy. Like me more of who I want to be.

Kevin: 29:17

That's a good point because I don't know how much you're on Instagram, but there is a part of Instagram where it's like deep thoughts and philosophical philosophical thoughts and certain content that curates that, right? Where it's not so a brain rotty and dopamine, like the dopamine casino, like that you you typically see with like Mr. Beast creators and stuff. And so I think there is definitely a place for kind of your wisdom and interest there. Like I've first hand seen it, so I know that for sure.

Sasha Cagen: 29:45

True, and clients send me those things. You know, even with this sort of feminine, masculine stuff, they'll send me some carousel that is, you know, from a Youngian psychotherapist, a depth psychotherapist. So there are those people. I have been a brat and been like. Like, no, I'm not gonna learn it. Like, there's a part of my resistance which is like, yeah, it's true, there is deep content there. It was impure and complicated. Actually, my advice to myself would be to like just try being deeper on Instagram because it is where people are.

Kevin: 30:15

Yeah. My clients are yeah, I feel that way about TikTok. Like, I'm like no TikTok brain rot content for me. Like my friend send it to me. I'm like, dude, I do not that's one app I refuse to install my phone because I just you know, especially the younger generation, the iPad kids is very real. The brain rot, like, is very rare with the younger generation, and you just see kids just like swiping up, swiping up, swiping up, and they're glued to the phones and stuff. But, anyways, you mentioned advice to yourself. And so, like you said, you've been in this business for about 13 years. I'm sure you got a lot of advice, both solicited and unsolicited. But I'm kind of curious about what's the most overrated piece of advice that you've gotten, and what's the most underrated piece of advice that you've gotten for building your business?

Sasha Cagen: 31:00

Overrated piece of advice. Interesting. Overrated, I guess it means I don't believe it. So let me see. Or yeah.

Kevin: 31:10

Overrated doesn't necessarily mean that you don't believe it, but it could be like it's kind of like uh the way I think about it, is like a really like expensive meal sometimes. Like it was good, but it wasn't that good, right? Like that's how I think about overrated. Or underrated was like, oh my god, this like no one knows about it, and more people should know about this, right? It's also like with food and stuff. So that's how I think about overrated underrated.

Sasha Cagen: 31:34

So I think I'm not sure if this is advice, but I guess I was part of group things that were helpful. Like, I'm really kind of struggling with this. So, like, what was the overrated advice? Oh, there's a piece of advice that I wish I never listened to. This is what it is. Here's the piece of advice that I wish I never listened to. Okay. I was early in my coaching time and a business coach told me to not pursue something like Patreon because people would think it looked bad or something like that. And it just kind of set up this limit about what was possible to explore. It was like, if you're going to be a coach, you can't also have this place where people give you money just to support your creative work or something like that. And you and then years later I saw she was doing that. I was like, what the hell? Like, I totally listened to her. And I guess that the thing there is like, don't necessarily believe what anyone says and like really test it out for yourself because it kind of annoyed me that that me from exploring something that actually she found worked for her.

Kevin: 32:38

Guess that's one way to eliminate your competition. You just give them bad advice and hope that they follow it. How how the other side? Like, how about like a piece of advice that you found like so valuable for yourself that a lot of people don't know about or think about too much or doesn't get that much attention?

Sasha Cagen: 32:55

I think that being in community with other business owners is really important. And that, you know, the whole solopreneur thing is pretty much ridiculous because being a solo entrepreneur is so challenging psychologically, and you're managing so many different aspects of your business, of like delivering the service that you're providing plus the marketing, plus a million other things. And there's just a lot of decisions that come up. So I think that cultivating community is really important. You know, I think that I've been in different groups that have brought people together, and for sure it's always helped me a lot. And it's I guess an essential. And right now I'm creating a lot of mutual support with people, and I'm just, you know, I'm just finding it so enriching to like talk to people and get out of the solo printer bubble as much as possible.

Kevin: 33:47

Ooh, I love that. It kind of reminds me about like, I can't remember which book I read it in, but I've experienced it myself. It's like when a really masculine figure, like when a really masculine energy combines with a really feminine energy, something really, really beautiful happens. And I feel like it's the same way with communities and stuff too, where it really like our ourselves really come alive in those energies and environments too. And as much as we want to grow ourselves as individuals, so magical about like I just want to mention that. Cool. Last question for you, Sasha. How do people find you and connect with you?

Sasha Cagen: 34:24

They can go to my website, sashakagan.com, S-A-S-H-A-C-A-G-E-N. I have a newsletter, so that's my primary way. So definitely sign up for the newsletter. And I just tested out something new on my website of putting a contact form at the bottom of every page. So you can go there and test that. You can tell me what you liked about this interview, like literally, if you see this now, cool. On Instagram, you know, trying to be my authentic self there. So you can find me there, Sasha Kagan. So yeah, the the newsletter, Instagram, and then I have pages on my website that describe the different ways I help people. So people can check those out and see if they feel called in some way.

Kevin: 35:08

And just thank you for just sharing all your experience, just like coming onto the podcast to work.

Sasha Cagen: 35:13

Thank you. Thank being a fun and uh conversation partner about it.

Davis Nguyen : 35:16

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit join purplecircle.com.