Career Coaching Secrets

The Doldrums and the Differentiator: Finding Joy in the Toughest Part of the Job Search - Maya Ollson

• Davis Nguyen

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In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Kevin is joined by Maya Ollson, founder of Cocapella. Maya discusses her career in the employment sector, where her company provides high-touch outplacement services to corporations and individuals.

She attributes her success to being deeply involved in the HR community and providing a high-quality, labor-intensive service, especially as the "resume queen." Maya’s future ambitions include launching a public training program and partnering with a major organization to improve the employment market. She advises that career coaching in her field requires maturity and life experience, not just youth.

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Maya Ollson:

You need some age under your belt. This is not an arena for kids. And I don't care who works at Bain and Deloitte and McKenzie, because they hire kids out of college. This is not a place for 20 years old. This is not a place for 30 years old. This is a place for someone in their 40s plus, because to be able to advise someone about the world I'm in, you need to know someone. things you need to have some maturity you need to understand people and how they operate you need to understand the whole employment market hr that portion of the hr market so that you're successful at it deeply rooted in it and you can't do that as a kid

Davis:

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Nguyen, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching business myself, and I've been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over a hundred million dollars each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business. business.

Kevin:

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Kevin, and today we're joined by Maya Olson. She is the founder of Cocopella. She's been coaching since, well, her business has been in existence since 2007, but she's told me that she's been coaching since middle school. So we definitely got to get into that, but welcome to the show, Maya.

Maya Ollson:

Thank you, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be here.

Kevin:

Yeah. I always like to start these podcasts with the origin story, the lore. So let's start at the very beginning. What was the very moment that when you realized that you want to become a coach, and more importantly, like make a business out of it? So curious about that.

Maya Ollson:

It started in my early 20s. I was working in a social service agency in Boston. And we had a couple of consultants come in and do training. And I sat there and I looked at them and said, I can do that. And I can do better. And that just That concept and that idea, that statement myself, that just opened the door to evolving in time a business that is very solid, very effective, very good. So what I stated back there, I certainly have done.

Kevin:

That's so interesting. And so, you know, for coaching, right, there's a lot of people that can help. How did you kind of discover who you wanted to kind of help with your coaching business? us.

Maya Ollson:

You know, I don't know, because I've thought about that recently. I don't know if I overtly chose this, but when I graduated from college, the recruiters that were coming to me were giving me, were offering me opportunities that involved the employment sector, you know, to be an employment coach, to be a job search training coach. Those are the opportunities that now My degree is as a bachelor's in psychology and sociology. So maybe they thought that made sense for them that it kind of fit in the employment world. But because it's just recently that I look back on my career and said, I wonder what it was about me that had them orient me that way. And that's the path that I seem to always go down to. I know employment. I know employment well. I know the employment process. I know the job search process. I know how to help people through that. career window. And it's a tough window to get. Job searching is very tough these days. So I'm not sure. I don't think I overtly chose employment sector is for me. But it did seem to come that way. I'm an expert at it. I love it. I know what I do it. I do it well. So it's stuck and it's stuck fast.

Kevin:

It seems like you've probably considered other target. It seems like in the considered other people to help other than the employment sector?

Maya Ollson:

Yeah, I dabbled in being a psychologist and helping couples, helping individuals with growth pains, and found that that world really wasn't a good fit for me. Now, I have my master's in education and counseling, so I know some things, and I declare I declined to get a PhD. I just didn't want to go through all that BS, so I said, no, I'm not going to spend four years doing it. I don't know if that was a good decision or not. It is one I made back then. And that wasn't enough of a match. And I didn't have enough training, and I needed a lot more training to do that and do that really well. So I stopped pursuing that sector and went back to and it stayed in the employment sector.

Kevin:

I see. And since you are in the employment sector, how do your clients typically find you? What does your marketing strategy kind of look like?

Maya Ollson:

Well, first of all, it starts with how we package our services. We're Cocopella High Touch Outplacement. So I run an outplacement company. And companies know of us. When they downsize, they give us their employees. We do their written In fact, you don't know, but you're talking to the resume queen. So we do their resumes. Cover letters, we teach them how to do a job search process, the whole process, develop a plan, develop strategies, what kind of tools can they use. We have a workbook, a 100-page workbook that people say it's called The Road to Job Search Success that is very specific about how do you do an effective job search. And so, first of all, we're known for that. We are active in our professional society, which is the SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management. And we're very active in our local chapter, both myself and my staff. We're in our local chapters. We provide transition services to fellow chapter members. So the concept of transition job search is just synonymous with our business and who we are and what we're known for. But certainly we write on it. We present on it. We post on it. You know, we're finding all kinds of vehicles to be able. In my adage, I'm pretty generous in what I do and offer is we don't have to be paid for everything we do. We often post some really salient information that's going to have a job seeker learn. Oh, that's how I do that. So we're often doing posts that help people learn oh, okay, that's how you do that. That's a good trick or tool to know. Thanks.

Kevin:

That's really interesting. So, okay, please let me know if I have things right or wrong. But it sounds like you also advise, rather than focusing a lot on the B2C market of how to get a job or recruitment, you're kind of on the other side advising companies on how to do an effective job posting and stuff. Is that what you do? No, not job postings

Maya Ollson:

at all. No, we're not on the recruitment end. We're an outplacement company. So we have client companies, and I left half of the story off, which is we also have individual clients. But we have client companies that come to us when they're downsizing. We help them execute an effective reduction in force. And then they give us those people. You know, it could be we've just downsized 10 people, take 10 people. One client saying, you know, we're getting ready for 80 people, take 80 people. So we then help them through the job search process. We do their resumes, cover letters, whatever we are not a job posting or a recruitment company. We're an outplacement company. But because we're really good at what we do, we have a following of lots of individuals. I mean, people are coming to us. One of the followings we have, and it's not a contract with the agency, but we are very known in the State Department. And the State Department has gone through turmoil through this current administration and Lots of people. In fact, when I talk to you about Vietnam, one of our clients is in Vietnam when she's in the State Department. So it's word of mouth. One client told me, I said, how did you come to me? And she said, well, I asked around the office, three different people, you know, who's the best resume writer around? And they came up with Maya Olson, Maya Olson, Maya Olson. Okay. Doesn't get better than that. You know, that's three people, three separate people recommending what we do. So, you know, I do that. My staff, we work with individuals and we work with corporations.

Kevin:

Thank you for clarifying that, by the way. And it seems like relationships are a huge part of your business and you've built up this reputation. Can you tell me a little bit about like, how did you kind of build your brand? How did you build this like reputation of people just knowing what you do and going to you and when they have that specific problem that you mentioned?

Maya Ollson:

You have to be out there. You have to be attending meetings. You have to be presenting. You have to be presenting. And, you know, my world is the human resource world. Those are the people we serve in corporations. So, you know, but it's not just in human resources. For example, I'm going to be presenting at a histology conference in Colorado Springs in the fall. Histology people are people in the hospitals who do run your blood work and do all that analysis. They've asked me to come and not talk about histology, but to talk about their careers. And so I'm going to show them, I'm going to show a few documents that they can employ in their career development, not just job searching, to knock the employer's socks off, to absolutely wow them. And so I'm going to show that. But my brand really got involved or evolved through experience. I worked for the top outplacement companies. There were three outplacement companies that were really top, and I worked with all three. And it was a full service. I was there doing training, working with individual clients, helping them with the full process. And what really bothered me was how they would cut corners and do anything to save money and change the candidate. And I say that. I was really ticked off at what they did or didn't do. You know, here, watch this video about how to do a resume. Talk to your career consultant for 20 or 30 minutes and they're fine. Bam, bam, bam. Thank you, ma'am. There's your resume. I'm sorry. We spend hours on someone's resume. It's their primary sales document. It's the first thing the world sees. It's what their LinkedIn profile hitchhikes all off of. I'm sorry, 20 or 30 minutes in a video is not enough to make you sparkle. We do just the opposite. We're labor intensive. We want to make sure that that candidate has the strongest, best documents going forward because that's their brand. And a resume is not about where you've been. A resume is about where you're going. And that's very important that we know how to nuance a resume so it tilts the candidate toward where they want to go and succeed.

Kevin:

You know what? When I was a nine to fiver, when I was like a pharmacist and stuff, I wish I knew that. I don't think anybody's explained it in that way at all. Yeah. Yeah. You

Maya Ollson:

know, most people go, Oh, my resume is fine.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Maya Ollson:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, I could outdo anybody's resume. But if you haven't had a professional to look at both formatting, because formatting can keep you out of an applicant tracking system, but the content. Your resume is going to get between 7 and 11 seconds of review. Your resume has to grab them in that time and pull the men to want to read it and then to trigger, I want to talk to him. You got to have a very powerful document to do that. And so when anybody tells me my resume is fine, I go, let me take a quick look at it and see what suggestions I can make. And I do that often. I do free resume reviews all the time. I tell people what I see in content and format that's going to get in the way for their document working for them. Employment is easily three to four to six months long. That's kind of the shortest window right now. You want to shorten that, make sure you have the strongest, best tools possible so that you do succeed when you're on a job board, on LinkedIn and networking.

Kevin:

One of the things that really stands out about me is how generous you are with your time and services. And you mentioned earlier that you do some like free resume reviews and stuff like that what I'm really curious about is like one of the things I love about this podcast is like I love hearing the different business models to see what's like working for some coaches at different stages but I guess like what are the different types of services or coaching containers that you have that you provide to your paying clients what do those look like I guess like kind of the different services you provide right like so some coaches they provide like one-on-one coaching some people have like some sort of group coaching coaching. Some people have different services. So I'm kind of curious, what does your portfolio of offers look like?

Maya Ollson:

We start with where the client is. So if the client is, I need a resume about ready to put myself out in the marketplace, that's what we do. We start where the client is. And if they want a cover letter, we say, send us a very recent ad. We'll write a cover letter that you can use for that particular ad, but we'll teach you what we did in that cover letter so So you understand and can use that as a template going forward. A good cover letter can take an hour to write. If we can shave off a half hour of that time because we've provided you with a good structure and a cover letter and good guts. So we'll add that layer. We have job search support groups, which are groups that meet on a regular basis to help someone with their search. You know, they know all the techniques, but they need some encouragement, some tweaking, some motivation. We have packages. You can pack, you can combine as long or as short a package. We have people who buy three months of coaching services and we meet with them. Some of it is we are training to do very specific things. We've got some tools. We want them to learn how to use them and use them well. But also we're there for, okay, I got an interview coming up. Well, let's get you prepared for that interview. So it's a service that's very full and well-rounded to help people. We have training programs that people can join and be involved in online, not just in attending in person. So we design and offer our services based on what the client needs at the time or what people in general need at the time. I jokingly say, my job is to get rid of you. And Everybody, nobody takes offense at that one. And everybody, yeah, I want to get rid of you too, Maya. Because my job is to teach them how to do an effective job search, but especially how to shorten it. Because when you know how to shorten it, that's more money in your pocket sooner.

Kevin:

Yeah. No, it's funny. It reminds me of the whole, I listened to a few podcasts and they talk about the whole concept of dating coaches. And if you've been with a dating coach for like multiple, multiple, multiple years, tells me that they're not really doing their job and it's kind of like with you the whole point of what you do is really to teach people like how to not only do it like there is a part where it sounds like it's done for you but really teach them the core like fundamental skills to keep it going in the future

Maya Ollson:

life skills every career professional and and people also who are just looking for a job need these skills but they don't take it to the level that a professional might but You need these skills for a lifetime. You need these skills through your 60s. Many, not all, but many people are working till they're 70. You know, it's a mile marker. Okay, here we're never in the next decade. So I'll work up till I'm 70. I'll get some social security and I still got a lot of wind in my sails. Okay, so let me do that. Okay, fine. But you need job search skills in your pocket all along the way. And what we, and that's what we send everybody our workbook. We ask them to read it three times because there's a lot of information. You need to understand the whole concept. Then you have to start to take slices of it and say, oh, there's a lot in here. Let me implement this and let me implement that. And the third time you read it, you go, oh my God, there's so much in here. There's little nuances that I could use that I hadn't even noticed. So we're interested in people developing the skills, developing them long-term. So the next time the ground starts to tremble under their feet whether it's theirs or their choice or the employer's, they go, I got this. And they're ready for the next step. They pull out their resume. They pull out their workbook. They pull out all the networking contacts. And they're taking it to the next step. And the more money and the better job they want, they definitely need the next steps. They got to stretch themselves to get those better jobs. So it's a process of, it's our expectation These are life skills. You need to develop them. You need to have them. You need to have them

Kevin:

long

Maya Ollson:

term. you're doing. What? Say what? It's just the opposite. I'm the light at the end of the tunnel. You know, probably the best, and it's only a small part of it, is when I help people get more money, more stock options, and more vacation in their negotiations than they would have gotten on their own. You know, that they close up that negotiations with a package that goes, that's great. Not only do I have a job, I've got a good job, a job where I can really succeed. And I got a great package to go with it. But that's one, you know, that's a very expectable high point. But I think probably it's getting someone out of the doldrums because job searching is daunting. It's long. Employers tell us it takes three to four months from the time they place the ad to someone's in the job. Sometimes it's as short as 60 days two months. But that means you have to have done all of your work to just even find that opportunity. So that means you've got some months ahead of time that you've already devoted to that before you even go through those three or four months or those 60 days. So it's a long process that people are stuck with doing. And there are a number of moments where It's too difficult for them. They want to pull the covers over their head that, you know, they're not productive for a week. We have a productivity chart that helps people look at what are the things you need to do, you know, every week in your search. And when someone is down in the dumps and they call and we say, you call, you call, you call in the evening, you call. I don't care if you're in that or you can't get productive. You call me. I'll shake, you know, I'll shake your cage. I'll shake you loose. And when they go and we talk the next week and say, boy, did you shake me out of that funk? I really, thank you. I needed it. I got productive again. That's really the most rewarding. And that's not a planned part of this job and it doesn't happen with every client. But when you can rattle someone's cage that they can become productive again. You know, one woman said, just yesterday, she said, Geez, you know, it may be difficult, but you're positive about that I can get through this. And I said, of course I am. I know you can. You know, you're quite resilient. You just have to shake yourself loose and start to do the things that are going to pay off for you.

Kevin:

Yeah, that's powerful stuff because I think sometimes people might forget that being unemployed or like losing or being in between employment is a very And I've definitely faced it alone before, and it is very daunting. And all the valley of despair, the hopelessness, you're doing God's work right there. So I appreciate you doing that.

Maya Ollson:

You know, let me digress for a moment. So we're talking about my business. I'll throw this in. When I was much younger, I used to want to save the world. That's right. OK, what am I going to do to save the world? And, you know, my business has been focused on corporations and individuals for a long time. And so I came to the conclusion that I'm not going to save the world. but I just might save some individuals. You know, the man's out of work and really struggling financially with his family, that I help him get it organized so that he's in another good job and he's out of that, oh my God, you know, I couldn't pay my kids college or, you know, it's getting near where I might not be able to pay for my mortgage. If I can help someone with that kind of issue, that's fine because I am saving his world and that's just fine. That's enough for me. I'm very happy with that.

Kevin:

Which leads me to this next question. Like I mentioned, you've had this business for a while. And so I'm kind of curious, where do you want this coaching business to take you in the next few years? Do you have any secret dreams, big ambitions that no one knows about? Or do you prefer to keep things the same?

Maya Ollson:

No, I have two avenues. One is I'm starting a full blown, more than I have, public training program. So that's in development now so that anyone can sign up for courses. And I said, no, we got to touch more people. We know how to do this. We know how to do it well. We need to touch more people. That's one. And this other one has been not derailed, but I have to refine it. I had expected by now to move to New Orleans and it doesn't look like And that should be near my daughter and help her as she grows her career. And I was very happy. I love New Orleans. Best choices. But it doesn't look like she's going to be there. So if she's not going to be there, I'm not going to be there. And I go, really? Because I had plans to walk into the mayor of New Orleans office and invite him or whomever he would suggest to partner with me to dramatically improve the employment market in New Orleans. So I'm looking for a big time partner who wants to really revamp this. It can be a state. It can be a county. It can be a city. I'm looking for someone who wants to go big time and really revamping their employment process. So both employers and candidates really have a full bore, really vibrant and effective search process. Employers are telling us they can't find the right candidates, yada, yada, yada, yada. There's all kinds of things that are going on. And employment is a hard market these days, both for employers and candidates. Any employer, any organization, large organization that wants to partner with me, I'd be very happy to talk with them.

Kevin:

That's really, really interesting. I think some coaches I speak to, they talk about this concept of scaling their business and stuff, but you're on the other end of really focusing on getting a big-time partner and all that. Have you ever considered the traditional business scaling at one point in your career?

Maya Ollson:

Oh, sure. I mean, we're always kind of scaling our business and growing it. So, yeah, that's not. But one of the things that I've learned in my business, because you asked about, you know, how do you develop your brand? Well, my current level of brand was developed being ticked off at the big guns, sometimes being unethical, but at least being limiting in what they offer to clients. Not limiting how much they charge, but limiting what they... And since that, I have learned to, I'm a synthesizer and I'm a reflective person. So something will go on or I think about it. And I think about it for a while to let it percolate and see what comes. And this wanting to partner with a major organization. And see, I've done organizational development. I help General Motors reduce manageable absenteeism by 13%. So I'm used to working with large organizations to orchestrate major change. I like it. It gets my juices flowing. I'm good at doing it. I know how to do it. So in developing my brand, I look for what really excites me. What's going to bring the joy to my work? And so rather than just scaling this up myself, I want the influence of a major partner that extends way beyond me. And that has to come from someone who's not Not me.

Kevin:

One of the things I'm wondering too, as you are growing your business, as you're looking for these like partnerships, these major plays, I would say, that's like the word that comes to mind, I guess. Yep. Yes. What are some challenges or bottlenecks that you're kind of noticing in your coaching business right now?

Maya Ollson:

Good question. I don't know that I'm worried about that. So with individual clients, it's always money. We're paid fairly for what we're doing. We're very good at what we do and we're paid fairly. You know, people don't understand how that's an investment in themselves. It's kind of always a bottleneck that's there. Some do. Some have the money. It's not a problem. But others don't understand the power that we bring in what we know. It's like put a bowl on your head and cut your own hair. Okay. You look great. You want to do that? fine. I know. And I go to the hairdresser because she really knows how to cut my hair to my head and make me look as attractive as possible. It's the same kind of thing. You need a whole set of skills for that. So that's always a bottleneck. I don't use it the way others use it, but kind of the, you guys are part of it. It's the Lincoln e-blast to sell everything and anything at everybody in anything, you know? And I'm like, really? You really want my time? You really think just because you send me this, it's going to interest me? Because you quote, okay, it's going to grow my business by X percent. That's really tiring. And I ignore it more than consider it. It just is a major annoyance that I don't want in my life. It doesn't mean I don't have to respond to some of it, but it's like, enough already. So the solicitation that you get a lot of times. It's just a bit much. Enough already. So, you know, since everybody's discovered how effective LinkedIn can be, you know, everybody's pouring everything in that and it's, oh, it's going to produce this and that. Okay. We choose our vehicles. You know, one of the things we're doing is we're developing testimonials because our clients say, your company's great. I can't believe you did this for So, you know, you did that. We're getting those all. So we're building testimonials that we will use as part of our marketing for potential clients to hear and understand what we do. We are, I'm not sure what the word is. We respond to all that solicitation based on if it fits with our values and we think it can have the kind of impact we want in our marketing. And I think client testimonials make sense. You know, we invest in software. We have software that enables our clients to have an informational interview in the company of their choice. You know, we pay for that, but we have that vehicle to open those doors for them. They can say, you know, here's the company I'm interested in, and we will go find someone that they can have an informational interview with free of charge for them. We have a Another part of our service that, okay, you know, now you're in the company, but now you want to talk and it doesn't have to be after your informational interview. There's companies that you're interested in. You use LinkedIn to find that hiring manager's name and title, and we can get you their email address and phone number so that you can use some of our tools to introduce yourself in a non-invasive way that gets you the Attention. Candidates are trying to be remembered and they're trying to be referred. So that's a great tool to help them be remembered and stand out from the crowd. It's one of the things that they have to do. So maybe the word is organic. It really fits for our values and what we're trying to do for clients. It solves a problem. We try to be data driven. So, for example, sales research shows it takes five to seven times to ask for the sale before you close the deal. We have all of our candidates, every step of the job search process, asking for the next step. So it can be from the recruiter to the hiring manager, to the team you were interviewed by, from HR to the senior hiring manager. You will always ask because you're a salesperson and you need to learn how. And you don't say, hey, that's great. When can I start? We give you a script. That makes sense. You know, the hiring manager describes the job to you and you go, okay, that's great. I'm a great fit. So what's my start date? You know, you can't do that. We help them learn what are appropriate messaging that shows the employer you're interested, you're excited, but most specifically that you're interested in their job. Because that's one of the, you know, he's looking for a job. Is he interested in our job? Or is it any job? job or someone else's job. You know, you want to hire someone who really wants to work in your company. So, okay. We help them do that.

Kevin:

Last question for you, Mayo. If you had to start over again tomorrow with zero followers, zero clients, zero of the relational capital that you built over these last many years, but you have all the wisdom that you have now and you had to rebuild your business, what would your first 90 days look like?

Maya Ollson:

My first 90 days?

Kevin:

First three months, yes.

Maya Ollson:

The first thing I would do is I'd beat the bushes much harder for a mentor. It's got to be a business mentor. I use some of the small business association. Their people didn't know my business and weren't very good. What I really needed was a consulting mentor. Here's some things that I did do that really paid off. I took an accounting course in English. It was It was taught by an accountant. It was taught by a representative. This happened to be through the Small Business Administration back then. Boy, did that make a difference. I understand my books. I could do my books if I want to. So it really helped because finance is a core piece of your business and you have to make sure that you're making enough money and paying your bills and growing. But I also took a course on consulting. What are the different kinds? Are you an advisor? Are you a pair of hands? And how do you do the consulting process? What are the things to avoid? What are unethical things to avoid? I took that too. I would have taken a lot more courses in that period of time. I would have done my marketing came later, my marketing course. I would have taken that much earlier to go, oh, there's a whole bunch of things to think about here and launch and do and start. So I would have got myself a lot more educated and held back. And I'm going to add a proviso in here, especially in my business. But I generally believe if you're going to be a career consultant, you need some age and your belt. This is not an arena for kids. I don't care who works at Bain and Deloitte and McKenzie because they hire kids out of college. This is not a place for 20 years old. This is not a place for 30 years old. This is a place for someone in their 40s plus because to be able to advise someone about the world I'm in, you need to know some things. You need to have some mature you need to understand people and how they operate you need to understand the whole employment market HR that portion of the HR market so that you're successful at it deeply rooted in it and you can't do that as a kid

Kevin:

Solid advice. I think that goes under the radar a lot of times having that like real life experience and that no amount of AI or like Google searching can ever replace that. Yeah. Maya, how do people find you? How do they connect with you?

Maya Ollson:

We have a website, cocapella.com. My email address is my name. It's Maya, M-A-Y-A dot Olson, O-L S-O-N at Cocapella. Cocapella is K-O-K-O P as in Peter, E-L-L-A dot com. And I entertain phone calls. That's not a problem for me. So if someone wants me, I'm at 973-534-7311.

Kevin:

That's amazing. And can people also connect with you on LinkedIn as well?

Maya Ollson:

Yeah, absolutely. I have millions. I joined LinkedIn in 2002. I joined because my clients were saying, I don't have anybody to network with. I said, well, I joined LinkedIn and everybody I'm working with gets connected to me and that way they have each other. So in the beginning, and I don't know maybe three, four years in, I had so many contacts that LinkedIn took away four and a half million of my contacts. I had too many. And that was at that point that you could do four levels with LinkedIn. So now it's down to three. And I think that's just fine. And I still have millions of contacts to share. No problem. Send me a LinkedIn invitation. I'd be happy to accept your invitation and learn how to use LinkedIn. It's an excellent tool to help you in job searching and to grow your career.

Kevin:

Thank you again, Maya, for dropping all your experience and wisdom on this podcast. I think a lot of people, you know, I think even for coaches, it just shows the way that you're speaking and the way that you structure your offers. Even though that we could have gone way deeper, it shows like a lot of thought and caring has gone into structuring your business too. And I hope like other people can realize that as well. Thank you so much for coming on, Maya.

Maya Ollson:

You're

Davis:

very welcome. My pleasure.