Career Coaching Secrets

Vulnerability Is a Strength: The Human Factor in Coaching - Brian Kelly

• Davis Nguyen

Share episode

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Kevin speaks with Brian Kelly, an executive coach and founder of Human Factor Consulting. Brian discusses his transition from corporate life to coaching, driven by a desire to help people be their authentic selves.

He rebranded his business to Human Factor Consulting to better reflect his broader services and to avoid the crowded "coach" label. Brian’s clients are mid-career professionals and executives seeking purpose-driven work. He markets his services through genuine connections in professional communities rather than large-scale social media campaigns. His most valuable lesson came from a personal health journey that led him to reframe vulnerability as a human strength.

Connect with Brian Kelly


You can also watch this podcast on YouTube at:
https://www.youtube.com/@CareerCoachingSecrets

If you are a career coach looking to grow your business you can find out more about Purple Circle at http://joinpurplecircle.com

Get Exclusive Access to Our In-Depth Analysis of 71 Successful Career Coaches, Learn exactly what worked (and what didn't) in the career coaching industry in 2024: https://joinpurplecircle.com/white-paper-replay

Brian Kelly:

That's the thing too. That's the invitation is always curiosity, but how many people truly go there? And like, if you're in the mindset of ego and I came to me today and I think it sort of applies in some way here, conformity mutes curiosity, right? So if you're conforming to this view of a man that's supposed to be X, Y, and Z and not, shouldn't be losing to 14 year olds and getting choked by 14 year olds or girls or whatever the, so it is, it's conforming. So it's going to mute your curiosity. You're not going to go there. So you're going to go with ego. Welcome to Career

Davis Nguyen:

Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Nguyen, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching business myself, and I've been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Kevin Yee:

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Kevin. And today we are joined by Brian Kelly. He's been a coach for 12 to 13 years, which is insane. And also he is the founder of Human Factor Consulting. Welcome to the podcast, Brian.

Brian Kelly:

To be with you, Kevin. Thanks for having me.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. One of the things I was so curious about, about a lot of the guests that we invite on here is the origin story, the lore. And so let's start at the very beginning. What was the very moment that you realized that you want to become not only coach, but actually start a business out of it. I'm very curious about that.

Brian Kelly:

Yeah. So I don't know if there was a single moment. I've always sort of been like a coach on the field with sports and teams and that kind of thing. But one of my mentors in corporate was like, you know, you should think about going to Georgetown. We were part of a mentoring program where he was my mentor. Started talking about stuff. And he had been to Georgetown's leadership coaching program. And I was like, and you really should think about this in terms of where you want to take your career. I said, There's a lot of energy that, and I just invite you to consider that. And he wasn't the first person to say that to me. Someone had done that sort of the same thing a few years earlier, but I wasn't ready to hear it. So that was the energy to get me to apply to Georgetown and get into this work. Turn into a business. As soon as I decided to pursue the training at Georgetown, I knew I wanted to make this a business. And a business from the standpoint of how do I help people develop as individuals, as leaders and help grow the impact that each person brings from the standpoint of creating better together.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. And pre-podcast, you're telling me about how you kind of rebranded and stuff. Can you tell me about your like previous coaching business and what you have now, I guess, in that transition?

Brian Kelly:

Yeah. So it was just my name, Brian Kelly, leadership coaching. I was wondering what name I should put towards it. And my brother who does branding just says, well, just do what it is, your name and leadership coaching, because that's all you tell them what, you know, just use that simple thing. And it was really long for the website, really long for when I had to write up my book and fill out forms and do that. But that's what I did. I didn't really like it, but I used it. In essence, it was a leadership and professional development coaching practice serving generally mid-career professionals and those typically not in my demographic because the energy behind what I wanted to impact was greater belonging, good inclusion, yielding diversity. I've always been taught from the the time the topic of diversity came up as a big deal in corporate, like 20 years ago, that diversity was like the starting point. I believe we have it backwards, right? You have to start with belonging, inclusion, equity, to create a diversity of thought, representation, and that is what creates the impact. So that was my coaching business, working with people, volunteered in a couple of diverse communities. Send, I don't know if you're familiar with Send, and Kevin. They're a national Pan-Asian nonprofit focused on professional leadership development. I believe there's a chapter in the Bay Area. I was on the board for the Greater Washington Beach and helped create the Corporate Executive Leadership Program that got launched in 2016. I was part of the team that launched that. So I was on the board and I wanted to immerse myself in a community of people that I wanted to serve so I could learn firsthand what are the real issues going on? What are the perspectives that people in this community might have that I might not be aware of or just might not see. And so I also was on the board for Alpha, which is sort of the Latino version of Ascend, a nonprofit focused on professional and career development and networking relationship building. So similarly, immersed myself in the culture. And I remember vividly going to Las Vegas for the National Convention the year after I joined Alpha. This is 2011. And got the sort of reverse of not being the the majority, right? Being the minority of everybody speaking Spanish around me, right? And it's like, oh my God. And like, it was just a micro of what people experienced that may not have English as their first language or may not be from this country or come into this country. And so it was a wake-up call in a good way, but I got a small glimpse as to what people deal with every day. And I was like, you know what? I think a lot of us, a lot of people that maybe look like me or just people that may not have self-awareness or other awareness to the degree that would be helpful to create the kind of diversity that we say we seek in business. I want to be part of creating that. And as maybe a white male voice that can help.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah, you got a glimpse of the third culture thing that all of us kind of talk about.

Brian Kelly:

Very small glimpse, like a weekend, right? But I got enough of a glimpse to say, my God. Yeah. Like, I felt that, oh, they're not including me. They're TikTok. Like, wait a minute, dude. That's the primary language. You got to adjust, dude. So there was a lot of that stuff. It was great, but it was difficult.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. Can't imagine. Now, for your rebrand, it's really interesting because we're talking about this a bit about off-podcasts, but you changed the words. It seems like you're very intentional when you said human factor consulting. You could have used the word coaching. Through your perspective, what do you feel like the difference between the two of us?

Brian Kelly:

What, coaching? Or why did I choose that? So I chose Human Factors Consulting because I felt that that brand would resonate. I think, first of all, I think there's too many people calling themselves coaches right now and it just gets, the markets watered down. So that was part of the motivation. The other thing was I wanted to get into other service offerings regarding consulting. And I felt if I was a coaching business, that might not, that might disqualify me in some potential, client's eyes in terms of getting consultant type work. And so there's that element of the logistics around business. And a lot of the work I was doing was actually consulting work. It's just like, because that's what was coming up there in terms of what do you mean when you say human factors? How many human factors are out there? And questions like that. And I'm like, well, human factors are just literally what those human elements that we all have figure and deal with fear, vulnerability, emotions, right? Control. And the consulting aspect of that, sometimes the need is for a team environment, right? So you can do team coaching, but it's really about education. And that felt more consultative than coaching to me. And so I just wanted to expand sort of the reach and felt consulting gave me that opportunity better than labeling as coaching. And as I said, one of the main motives was just not being branded as a coach because everybody's got their shingle up as a coach now. And I just felt like it was worded down, even though I've been trained and certified several different times. I felt like, well,

Kevin Yee:

like

Brian Kelly:

why brand myself like that? Let me just show up and deliver the coaching under the umbrella of human factors.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. And let's kind of talk about your business for a second. One of the things I'm always so curious about is marketing. And so how do people typically find how to work with you and who is like your target avatar, I guess, or your ideal clients?

Brian Kelly:

My target avatar. is mid-career professionals. And typically right now, the ones that are coming to me are career transition, people on career transition. I'm a lot of the layoffs in the DC area and just everywhere with major companies. And so that's sort of a target audience. What I hope to do is have a couple of different channels where I can serve the mid-career. I've served executives as well in terms of their transition from wherever they are in the executive suite to either what they're going to do to kind of transition into retirement or to something that is more meaningful and heart-led. So they may have been excellent at their career. They're a high-level executive at a big four consulting company, but that's not where their heart is now. They want to do something in a different way to serve that is more heart-centered. And so I help them with that, and that gets back to, well, what does that look like? And gets to the self-discovery process and reconnecting with self and why does it matter to you? What is the why behind it? Because purpose ultimately is a story, right? So let's get into your story and why this matters and the purpose and why you're giving up a significant six-figure salary and maybe even more at times to do this at this stage of your life. And that's why I find, too, as people go through their career, later stages of the career, it's less about money. It's more about meaning. And so I've always felt like doing meaningful work was more valuable than necessarily the money that came with it. And so I tend to attract people that are looking for that, that want to connect to meaningful work that, yes, pays the bills and meets their financial needs. But there's this extra level of energy ramp up when you're actually doing meaningful work and you kind of can't wait to go to work on Monday kind of energy. Whereas the motivation, part of the motivation for me getting into coaching initially was I wanted to retire the work mask. The work mask, every day before I I went in, I put this invisible work mask on and just navigate whatever the situation was. And I felt and saw so many people doing the same. I'm like, man, this is ridiculous. Why are we doing this? What if we could retire the work mask or any kind of mask that doesn't allow you to be who you fully are so that you can bring forth that contribution and get that greater performance, healthier relationships, and greater fulfillment, which is sort of the mission of human factors consulting.

Kevin Yee:

And with the marketing stuff, like, because it's so deep, the things that you're talking about, about are so deep. And so how do you kind of like get people to work with you, I guess, like on the more tactical

Brian Kelly:

level? Speaking gigs, being immersed in communities like Alpha and Ascend. It's getting in front of people. It's conversations, right? Ascend recently, I guess it was the beginning of this year. One of the leaders in the New Jersey chapter and New York chapter, a couple of the leaders there saw this need for members in transition within that community needing support. So they started this twice a month call. And so I found out about it through our local chapter or president here who posted something on LinkedIn. I'm like, well, I need to join the call. And then, so like, I'm getting immersed in that community now where penasian professionals may be in a position and needing help with. It could be anything from resume writing, interviewing tips, or, hey, I want to do something different, but how do I transition from being in the pharmaceutical industry doing X to something else? And that's what I help people with. It's like, you're not starting from scratch. How do you navigate from A to B given what matters to you, what your skill set is, and what attributes you're looking for in the next role. So it's really about connecting on different levels. So it's either one-to-one conversations, it's communities where we have regular calls like the Ascend MIT, or it's being involved in nonprofits or organizations like that, where the communities I want to serve allow me to kind of learn more about what matters to them.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. I'm also curious too, one of the things I just love about this podcast is that I get to just yap with so many different coaches here. And I'm kind of curious about like your different coaching modalities and models that you have. Some coaches, they have one-on-one coaching. Some have group coaching. What do your different coaching containers look like, I guess, for your business right now?

Brian Kelly:

It's one, it's one on one. And then I call them circles. So group coaching. So like modality wise, a little bit of both. And then speaking is part of it too. Speaking gigs that again leads into the lead generation.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. That's really interesting. You seem like more than a social media type of person. You seem like very like in real life type of events and connection and all that.

Brian Kelly:

Cause I feel that's how you kind of connect to your tribe. I do social media as well. So LinkedIn. a little bit of Instagram and social media posts, that kind of stuff. But the thing that I find works best is, and social, like Zoom calls, the Ascend MIT calls that happen twice a month, they're on Zoom. So it's virtual. It's doing this kind of stuff, but it's getting connected to a community that is aligned and needs what you have to offer. And I volunteer what I bring to the Ascend MIT, but then I have conversations afterwards. And if people want to go deeper, then there's an opportunity to do that there. And there's a lot of people right now they're kind of have been laid off and have been out of work for a while now and it's just taking a long time for them to get to their journey so what can they do during that time to position themselves for success the first thing they got to figure out is what do they want to do is it the same thing is it different get an inventory of what you have to bring and what you want and kind of be clear on and get to clarity and so that's really what I start offering is getting to clarity what does clarity look like for you in terms of the next step it can be what you're doing now it can be the the next, you know, getting a promotion or it can be transitioning to something else. But it has, the energy is, you know, don't take this opportunity, not just to find a new job, but align to what matters to you. Because in the end, if you're just seeking a job, you're probably not necessarily setting yourself up for fulfillment and long-term success, because it's just a transactional thing. I'm transactionally going and seeking a job rather than getting something that has some meaning for you, which may. And so like, why would you Having clarity around and asking them about, oh, you take this next job. You're looking to do this next job for the purpose of what? What are you going to do after that? And so having a longer term view, even for the next step. So then we get focused on what direction do you really want to go? And what does the next step look like? And getting really clear about that. And again, connecting back to purpose and why and those kinds of things. And for some people, they just want to get a job and that's fine. There's no judgment around that. But the question is... When you have this opportunity to pivot and choose what you do next, why won't you take the opportunity to kind of then and get clear on what matters to you and then make a choice that's aligned with that? And so that's what we

Kevin Yee:

have people do. Yeah. It's really interesting because there's obviously a very deep level to what you do and whatnot as well. And there's this book I really like. It's called Pricing Creativity by Blair Enns. And it talks about like, how do you, I'm not sure if you ever heard of Blair Enns, but he, it's about pricing really creative like non-transactional type of things that are very subjective right and so I'm kind of curious with the work that you do you don't have to give any hard numbers or anything like that but when you're kind of creating your pricing strategies or pricing for your different containers what factors do you look at because I know some people they do per hour other people do for a duration of time like kind of a project and others do value-based and so I'm kind of like curious like where you kind to fall into pricing.

Brian Kelly:

Never did hourly, even coming out of Georgetown, because that's just, it sets up a framework that's not healthy, right, for your business. So it's always been value priced. In terms of how I go about doing that, I'm actually working with coaches now on this very element in terms of validating your offers, right? Getting connected to your community, doing validation calls, right? Getting a sense for what the value of an offering might be. and testing it. And then we go through a testing process. Generally, what I do is, so you can test the market or say, okay, what are other coaches doing, which can be valuable as a input, but I wouldn't just copy-paste. Oh, they're charging X, let me charge X. It really gets back to what you said in terms of how you're doing it, the value. So if I spend six months with you helping you transition to a new career and it costs you $20,000 and you're and you're more fulfilled, better lifestyle, and you're making the same or better money, like what's that worth to you for the next 10 years? And so like, there's an element of subjectivity to it, but that's the only way to price where you're actually deliverable to align with what you're actually delivering, right? There's no like, oh, I'm going to get a car part at auto care and I need some brakes or something. And it's 189. Oh, there's no, it's not like a law list where you can just say, I'll take one of those and two of those. It depends on the nature of the work. It basically gets down to what is the nature of the work and what is the investment that I need to make in terms of hours and those kind of things. And then you kind of price it based on that without getting too specific. It's really based on value and sub-valuing that ultimate impact, right? What is the quality of life that change that's then open to you?

Kevin Yee:

Yeah, I was actually talking to another coach through this podcast and And he deals with like ultra high net worth individuals, people who have like 300 million in the bank and stuff like that. And it's... It's not transactional for them. And that's what I love about subjective, like offers and all these sort of things. Cause the cap is the moon is like at the end of the day, it's like, what does that work to you? What does someone want to pay? Yeah. Because like, sure. You know, if your family's falling apart and all your relationships are falling apart and stuff like that, like that, how do you put a price on that? And I've always kind of, that's why I love pricing because it's just such an interesting field and stuff,

Brian Kelly:

but yeah. It is. And- And so I price for me, I don't really price for the client, right? And so like the impact and the value that I deliver, it's like we invest in ourselves, right? Hopefully as coaches, the coaches are investing in themselves and building their toolbox and their skillset and their abilities so that they can bring greater impact. And so, yeah, you got to price that into what you will.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. And it's kind of interesting because some people are priced off like, oh, what's, it's not like, sometimes I've heard pricing like strategies where it's not like I have a place of like, oh, I really want and do this. It's kind of like, oh, what's my non-resentment number and stuff to take this on? And maybe I'll add an additional premium on top of that, which I think is pretty

Brian Kelly:

interesting, too. It is interesting. It's a basic way to start. But at some point, if you're doing something at a price point where you do get resentful of it and you're like, why did I do this? You're luring, right? And then you either stop doing it or you feel resentment. But many early coaches sort of go that route or something similar to it.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah, my mind was like, just don't take it a project then. But yeah, I guess that is, that

Brian Kelly:

is right. Well, that's the thing. That's the rub, right? Is depending upon your situation, oh, I need money. Oh, I need time. I need money. And some of them take on clients. Maybe we shouldn't have, right? So that's a learning experience.

Kevin Yee:

Now let's switch for a second. So one of the things I'm also really interested in, because you've been a coach for quite a long time. And so I'm kind of curious, this new iteration of your business, where do you want this coaching business to take you in the next few years? Do you have any like secret dreams, big ambitions no one knows about? I'm very curious on that.

Brian Kelly:

So what's going to come up in the next one to three years or so is a book, right? So the journey, it's going to be about the journey, why human factors, what I think we're missing in terms of the leadership right now and why what I noticed in terms of the utter lack of caring in the workplace is exactly where we need to be, even though that's not what we're taught. We talk about love in the workplace and people get all freaky about it, right? But it's not romantic love. It's just caring about people and rather than prioritizing work over everything. And that was sort of the energy that was there. It's like work over, it doesn't matter. We have a project we're implementing tomorrow. It doesn't matter that your kid is sick or something like that. And so like, we get away from valuing humans first? That becomes my questions. That's going to be wrapped into a book that I'm excited about that's sort of been a loose formulation for a couple of years now. That's interesting, the book. That could also then be a way to get leads too, right? So to kind of get speaking. Yeah, the book funnel. Yeah.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm also very curious because like you've been a coach for a long time as well. Have you ever, has the thought of getting other coaches under your brand ever crossed your mind? Or was that something that you just like never really want to touch?

Brian Kelly:

Across my mind, yeah. But when you bring in someone under your brand, it's sort of like dating somebody, right? there's a lot of things you've got to be mindful of in terms of the relationship, right? And then, so, you know, there's a lot of complexities there too. So I haven't really given it a lot of serious thought. Partnering with people has been something I've done, but not necessarily bringing them under my umbrella. I love collaborating with other coaches and professionals to deliver a one plus one is 11 value, right? So we each bring our tools and deliver outstanding value. But within my umbrella, and I'm not that possessive that I have to get people undermine Bella. I'm fine with collaborating, sharing the wealth as we deliver.

Kevin Yee:

Okay. I want to play a game. I have this segment, recurring segment I have on all my podcasts. It's called Good Investment, Bad Investment. And so I want to know the best thing you spent your money on for your coaching business and the worst thing that you spent money on that you wish you could get your money back from. So I'm curious about your best investment and worst

Brian Kelly:

investment. So I'll go with a couple of things. And this is, it may not sound like it's business related, but since I'm the business owner and I'm the sole entrepreneur. It's relevant. Making the choice to go get tested for anxiety. I had enough self-awareness and in tune with sort of my body to know, hey, something's not right here. So I went and got tested. It was modeled at the time. It was as we were going through COVID and I was going through a significant family issue at the time. And so it became worse. And so then I got treatment for it. And now my doctor said something on the lines of your body chemistry, your chemistry was off and you just needed to We've done that. And what I noticed was a different change, a positive change in lifestyle. And I also, upon reflection, believe that I have had all my life a undiagnosed social anxiety disorder. I believe that to be true. I can't prove it, but I believe that to be true because I just remember the anxious energy I'd have for the most ridiculous things, like meeting someone new, giving a presentation or a speech, Just anything where I'd have to kind of put myself out there. And it was a conditioning that happened and that became sort of a thing I just had to deal with. And I was like, wait a minute, you know, that buzz that I've been feeling all my life throughout, you know, just engaging in life and with people. After I got this rebalance and this treatment, I don't feel that anymore. I get anxiety, anxious and, you know, some of that kind of stuff, but not at the same level. And it's not just, it's not easily triggered like it was. was before, just like it was sort of like a normal thing. It was normal, but it wasn't normal. And I didn't realize that it wasn't normal until I actually went and got help. And so that then was impactful because it required me to shut down my business for a while to get healthy. And then which gave me time to reflect and make the pivot that I was talking about with human factors consulting. What do I really want to do? How do I really want to serve? So this is sort of a reminder that especially for individual solopreneurs or business leaders or leaders, you're This isn't going to thrive unless you're able to thrive from a health perspective and to pay attention and go ask for help. For the longest time, men don't go to doctors, men don't do this, men don't cry. The vulnerability thing, men don't show vulnerability. Well, that was the thing that I had this whole thing of vulnerability meaning weakness. That's what the learned belief that I grew up with. And so at Georgetown, what shifted was I wasn't, things weren't working out. I was having, I was struggling with practicing what we were learning in class. And I had to go through this process and say, hey, do I really want to do this or I'm just being performative and want to go through this to get this certificate and whatever. And it wasn't that. I wanted to do this. And so going through my process, deep dive, tears, introspection, what happened was I came up with a reframe that mattered to me. And vulnerability means weakness was my learned belief, my chosen belief that I believe in and that I have built my businesses off of subsequently is vulnerability is human. It's how we connect with one another. And it's one of our greatest untapped human strengths. The challenge is we've been conditioned to believe otherwise. And so this concept of unlearning is a big part of what I do too, is our parents, our influencers, our family, our grandparents, our teachers, our coaches, they all do the best they can. So there's no judgment there. But some of that stuff, we sort of know better now. And so like Maya Anzal, when we know better, we've got to do better. Many of us aren't there yet. And we still are wrapped around things that are learned beliefs, but maybe we don't really believe that. And so what if we could shift that, right? What if we could shift our relationship with vulnerability or fear or control or judgment or whatever it is that's getting in our way to something that's healthier? What does that look like? It's different for everybody. It's just healthier, right? Is it serving you or not serving you? Is it allowing you to build healthy relationships or is it not allowing you to build healthy relationships? Is it allowing you to live a fulfilled life or is it not? And there's no judgment about what it is. It's just an, okay, is this important enough for you to invest in and commit to? And that becomes the question, right? Are you Are you interested in being healthier and going to the gym or are you committed to doing it, right? That kind of thing. And so same thing, people that are interested in relationships with whether it's fear, control, vulnerability, what have you, it doesn't work. You have to be committed to it because it's got to matter enough for you to be enough of a pain point that you will invest the time, go through the discomfort, discomfort equals growth, right? Outside the comfort zone is where we grow. And so you've got to be ready for that or willing to go through that. And not everybody's there yet. And so that's fine. So I'm looking for the people that are ready to kind of go through that, ready to invest and commit to themselves. And an investment equals commitment, right? And it's not just money. It's time. I know it's going to be uncomfortable at times, but I'm going to not power through it, but I'm going to embrace that and say, okay, this is fine. I'm learning. How am I growing? What do I need to get to? What do I need to continue to build to get through the discomfort to what the other side looks like? And the other side always but we a lot of us never get there because we stop at the discomfort and let's let's not stop at the discomfort uh get curious about it

Kevin Yee:

yeah you know it's really interesting i think about different modalities like what you're saying before and vulnerability and discomfort and stuff and the growth and you mentioned something about health and i'm not sure if you know i'm a huge jiu-jitsu head uh i love ufc i love mma and it's interesting because i see the growth of uh new white belts especially the like super jack dudes like they're like power lifters or something like that or bodybuilders and stuff and they come in with the ego but then how it has to like through the process of jujitsu and getting choked and being humbled really badly you see that kind of dissolve and you see the vulnerability and then you see these like that's why I think the belt system is so interesting because I see the people the despair and then once you kind of dissolve the ego you go kind of like an ayahuasca type of trip like you start seeing this crazy exponential growth because you're able to be vulnerable and you're able to be like this actually I'm actually not very good at this and stuff and you start being a lot more self-aware versus like the Dunning-Kruger effect where you're like oh yeah I'm really really good but you're like a what two stripe white belt or something like that and you just started jiu-jitsu last week you know

Brian Kelly:

it's just really interesting it's a great example and that's the thing too more people need to embrace being humbled I'm grateful for the things that have humbled me because they've allowed me to kind of grow into the person I am now and the person I'm becoming. But that becomes a fear factor for people, right? Oh, I got choked out by someone that I thought I was stronger than or whatever the mindset is that I should be able to X, Y, and Z. Good. Yes. Yeah.

Kevin Yee:

Well, getting... well especially for men too like us men I feel like you need like men need those modalities to remind themselves like to be humble and we get choked out by a 14 year old protege jujitsu child or you get tapped out by a girl or something right it's just really humbling at that and that can happen in any form of life first time I did jujitsu I got choked out by a 14 year old dude it was so

Brian Kelly:

bad why is it bad It's a learning experience, right? But the mindset is, oh, I shouldn't have gotten choked out because of the age or if it was a woman, right? That's mindset, right? That's belief. No, that's awesome. But it's a great example, though, because that same example, you can use it too, but it's the same kind of thing in different forms where public speaking can be one, having a woman or a manager that's non-white, like all these kind of things. It's a similar thing. And the grip on us is our ego. It's an Ego's not necessarily bad, but it's unhealthy ego, right? Not being in control, that's part of it too, right? So being in control, part of it is, you know, this other person's got control over me now because of my mind. Well, think of it as control. Think of it as opportunity to support you, right? Like, it's all how you choose to look at things. I think the condition, the human condition that we've got with regard to, oh, a 14-year-old shouldn't be able to choke me out or a woman that's 110 pounds shouldn't be able to choke me out. Well, you're generalizing every woman. What if this person's been trained by a five generations of, what is the name? The Gracies out of Brazil. I don't care if he's 12, 14 or 50, right? And so it's all about like perception and perception becomes reality. I should be able to, right? I should not be able to do this.

Kevin Yee:

I think that's also like you mentioned the ego, right? And a lot of times we have a tendency to be like ego is bad, but I think it's like knowing who's in the driving chair and what's driving it Like there's moments in time where I'm like, this is an ego play for sure. And sometimes I'm just like, fuck it, let's go. Like, cause we're not that. And the other times I'm like, okay, let's like, let's play with this for a second and maybe set that off to the

Brian Kelly:

side. That's, that's the thing too. That's the invitation is always curiosity, but how many people truly go there. And like, if you're in the mindset of ego and, um, I, I came to me today and I think it's sort of applies in some way here, conformity and huge curiosity, right? So if If you're conforming to this view of a man that's supposed to be X, Y, and Z, and shouldn't be losing to 14-year-olds and getting choked by 14-year-olds or girls, whatever the set is, it's conforming. So it's going to mute your curiosity. You're not going to go there. So you're going to go to the ego place and bump up against ego and not maybe have a healthy way to kind of interact with that.

Kevin Yee:

Yeah, and it's definitely ego, especially in jujitsu, because honestly, how much force does it take to break someone's arm? How much force does it take to blow out someone's AC not that much really if you think about it's not that much and even kids can generate that force so just the last thing before we end the podcast I thought it was really funny where I took like I was with another purple belt and we're in the kids class and stuff I was like I wonder how many kids we could take on so I had the whole kids class try it like in purple belt is actually pretty good it's considered advanced belt but within 30 seconds all these kids piled on him and he got choked out, which was hilarious, but it was very humbling too. Yeah. Well, Brian, how do people find you? How do people connect with you?

Brian Kelly:

LinkedIn is a great place to find me. Brian Kelly, Human Factors Consulting. Humanfactorsconsulting.net, my website, is a great way for us to connect.

Kevin Yee:

Sick. Cool. It was so great just chopping up with you and just getting to know you and hear about all your experiences with the business. We even, we got into some deep stuff. We got into, funny stuff like kids choking grown men like me out. And then we also talked about pricing models, which I thought was really, really interesting as well. Thank you so much for just sharing your experience here, Brian. Hopefully we'll have you again soon.

Brian Kelly:

Appreciate it, Kevin.

Davis Nguyen:

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit joinpurplecircle.com.