Career Coaching Secrets

Matthew Davies: Why Your Executive Coach Needs Humor and Empathy

• Davis Nguyen

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Host Rexhen Doda interviews Matthew Davies, a leadership consultant, executive coach, facilitator, and speaker, and founder of Matthew Davies Leadership LTD. Matthew, who transitioned from a banking career, helps leaders build clarity, confidence, and performance, bringing humor and empathy to his work.

He embraces a broad client base focused on individuals keen to "get better," rather than a specific niche. Typical engagements span 6-8 sessions over six months, emphasizing personal connection and energy.

Matthew's client acquisition is driven by relationships and word-of-mouth, supported by a weekly blog and strategic LinkedIn networking. His goals prioritize sustainable direct client work and a balanced life over solely maximizing income, with future plans to collaborate with other coaches on larger programs.

His top investments are executive coaching courses (AOEC, Henley Business School), valued for learning and networking. He discusses the nuance of certifications, pursuing higher accreditations to demonstrate professionalism and access senior clients, despite their often indirect financial ROI.

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Matthew Davies:

Every piece of work I've done in four years, whether it was delivering training, coaching, team coaching, speaking events, every single one has had a direct line back to somebody that I knew, either people I met through my work in the bank, people I know through American football, people I knew personally, people I've met while I've been doing those things, every single one. So it's not always a case of I worked with this person and they moved here and they brought me in. There are some like that. Sometimes it's I hosted an event five years ago at the bank

Davis Nguyen:

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Nguyen, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching business myself, and I've been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevate your coaching business.

Rexhen Doda:

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm your host Regin and today's guest is Matt Davis, a dynamic leadership consultant, executive coach, facilitator and speaker with the talent for helping leaders unlock clarity, confidence and performance in today's complex work environments. With experience coaching leaders at major organizations like HSBC, Virgin Money, Citi and the NHS, Matt specializes in guiding individuals and teams through leadership leadership development, communication strategy, and transformational change, often with humor, empathy, and a touch of what he calls agony uncle wisdom. As the founder of Mad Davis Leadership LTD and Faculty Coach at Manchester Metropolitan University. Matt brings energy, storytelling, and practical frameworks to every engagement, whether it's designing leadership programs, hosting corporate events, or equipping technical teams through the Data Literacy Academy. And it's a pleasure for me to have him on the podcast today. Welcome to the show, Matt.

Matthew Davies:

Thanks very much, Adrian. Lovely to be here.

Rexhen Doda:

It's a pleasure to have you on. Thank you for coming. And I want to know more on what inspired you or what What got this all started? What inspired you to become a coach and then start Matt Davis Leadership Ltd and start your own coaching business?

Matthew Davies:

Yeah, so I started off coaching in a bank which is now NatWest but at the time was the Royal Bank of Scotland which was one of the biggest banks in the UK. I'd worked there for 15 years and after about seven of those I got put at risk of redundancy. There was kind of a restructure, my department was being cut and I had to make a decision then as to do I leave and find something else, take the package and go or do I stick around and find some and here that I really love. And a couple of years before that, I'd started coaching American football. So I'd played American football, the full contact helmet and pads version for quite a number of years. And I'd started coaching the sport and I really kind of fell in love with the coaching process. Coaching, you know, exec coaching, team coaching is quite different from coaching a sport, but the engagement and seeing those light bulb moments and helping people grow and kind of flourish was something I was really passionate about. And I was looking on our internal jobs board and there was a thing came up, which at the time was called the sales and service coach by the end it changed job title several times but i applied for that got the job offer in the interview and and never looked back and so i did that in the bank in our retail banking function for about two or three years and then in services which was our kind of back office function where they had technology transformation payments shared services all those kind of things I did that there for five years and then in 2021 again they were having another restructure and our jobs were put at risk and I took the package left the business and set up my own company and the beautiful thing was by that point especially compared to 2013 when I was previously put at risk in 2013 I didn't really know who I was and what I wanted to do you know like in truth I was still kind of trying different things out and sort of trying to find out who I was as a professional but as soon I started coaching it became absolutely clear that this is what I would build my career in and so I left and the last nearly four years now I've been doing the exact things that I did there one-on-one coaching team coaching design and delivering and training and consultancy services and then I guess it's a sideline a little bit but speaking at events and emceeing events and all that good stuff so yeah it's the opportunity to see people achieve things that sometimes they didn't even realize they were capable of that's the thing I really love about it and just knowing that you've been a little part of success. It's hugely rewarding in both sport and in business and it's the reason that I do what I do.

Rexhen Doda:

I really like that and so right now it's been about let's say four years, close to four years? Yeah, it'll be

Matthew Davies:

four years in September since I left. Four, maybe three years

Rexhen Doda:

and a few months. Yeah, cool. And so when it comes to the people that you work with, do they fit some sort of ideal client profile? Are they from a certain industry or certain demographic? How would you describe it?

Matthew Davies:

It's a really interesting question, Rajan, and it's something I been asked a lot because naturally when people get into coaching and when they get support to set their business up or or to enhance their coaching business one of the things that people talk about a lot is what's your niche who is it you coach is it women returners from maternity leave is it you know kind of middle-aged men in a kind of career crisis is it people in their first senior leadership job and I don't have a niche and it's quite deliberate and the reason I don't have it is because I love like I really love coaching and I love the variety that I get in the role I have Now, in terms of themes, there's been a lot of people in financial services, naturally, because of the background that I have. I've worked with people as a coach in NatWest, where I came from, in Citibank, Virgin Money, in HSBC, and a couple of smaller organizations as well, quite a few people in insurance companies. So financial services has definitely been a theme. But the level of the organization, the roles they're in, the types of parts of the organization they work in has been hugely varied. I've worked with people all the way from kind of first-line management, all the way up to C-Suite and I love all of it really and my big thing and I say this all the time because I do a mix of my own work so clients that I have found myself and work with and work directly for and then associate work when I work as a third party for associate firms they'll maybe give me a cohort of clients on a program and I'll work with them throughout the course of a year but the theme for me across all of it is people who want to get better because in the bank one of the things that was interesting was we were allocated to people it wasn't a case of Reggie's looking for a coach Here's a list of coach options. Meet a few of them, find one you like. It was a case of, Reggie, you're getting a coach and it's Matt Davies. And you're sitting there in some cases thinking, A, I didn't want a coach and B, I didn't want Matt Davies. And so there was kind of that reluctance and you had to overcome this initial skepticism or this initial hesitancy to be coached. In some places in the bank, there had been a challenge where people viewed coaching like it was a remedial thing. You know, like you only got a coach if you were doing something wrong, which was not the case at all. So that led to a lot a time and energy spent on almost trying to persuade people that it was a good thing or that it was an opportunity. And to be honest, I don't want to spend my life doing that. I want to spend my life working with people who really want to grow and learn and find out more about themselves and reflect and have those insights that come from coaching. And so anybody that's keen and that is interested and that is willing to do the deep work, I'm there for them.

Rexhen Doda:

And how is it like for any leader that's listening? How is it like to work with you? Is there a certain program of certain length? How is the engagement like?

Matthew Davies:

It's really mixed, naturally. I kind of keep it flexible to support. But I would say a normal program would be sort of six to eight sessions over six months. And generally what I like to do is get to a rhythm where there's about a session a month, but at the start we'll have kind of three sessions. So we'll have one, then a couple of weeks, then another, then a couple of weeks, then another, and then kind of filter out a one-monthly operating rhythm. And the reason I like that is I feel like in the early stages, you're looking to build some momentum, really dig into who this person is, what do they want to develop in themselves, give them an opportunity to start feeling like they're going somewhere and create the energy around it. So that would be a kind of typical program. And listen, occasionally, and it's not something I necessarily actively offer, but there have been times where I've done one-off sessions where someone that I've worked with historically in the bank has come to me and said, I've got this specific challenge. I really just want someone to talk it through with. And I'll do a one-off session with them. So I do do things like that. But naturally, I prefer things that are a little bit more lasting. They've got a little bit more meat on the bones. And so we've kind of done it that way. And in terms of what it's like to work with me, I think one of the really interesting things in all of the lines of work I do, whether it's design and deliver and training, whether it's coaching, whether it's team coaching, whether it's, you know, kind of speaking at events. The thing I'm always reminded of is that as coaches and as facilitators and as, you know, kind of trainers, we've all got the same books. We've all read the same. stuff we all read the same articles we've all got access to the same podcast we can all go on the same courses so really kind of the core um i guess content can be you can get it from different sources in the same way coaching goes i've spent a lot of time and money developing myself as a coach but lots of other people have been on those same courses and read those same books and things what i think really separates coaches and trainers and facilitators is the personality the energy they bring to it the passion they bring to it everything i do in my life I do with energy, with humor, with joy, with a sense of fun. And even when we're working with leaders on really challenging things and naturally with coaching, some of the work that you do is about the work, is about their professional life, but there's always an overlap when you're talking about things about their lives outside of work. And I try and approach even the most challenging situations with a sense of joy and make people feel like, firstly, that I'm there for them and I've got their back. Secondly, that I'm a cheerleader for their success and I want to see them succeed. And thirdly, that the sessions that we have together will leave them feeling uplifted in some way, whether it's they've had an insight, whether it's they felt heard, whether it's that agony uncle thing you mentioned. Sometimes people just need somewhere to go and vent. I can't vent to my bosses. I can't vent to my team because it's not appropriate. I don't want to be taking my work home and doing it to the family. So sometimes it's as simple as that. But I think the joy and the energy and the passion are the golden thread that runs through everything I do.

Rexhen Doda:

Thank you so much for sharing that, Matt. And so for the coaches listening to this part of the podcast where do you find your clients or say in terms of marketing channels which marketing channel is working best for you and I'd love to probably dive a little bit in the strategy as well

Matthew Davies:

absolutely every piece of work I've done in four years whether it was delivering training coaching team coaching speaking events every single one has had a direct line back to somebody that I knew either people I met through my work in the bank people I know through American football people I knew personally people I've met while I've been doing those things things, every single one. So it's not always a case of I work with this person and they moved here and they brought me in. There are some like that. Sometimes it's I hosted an event five years ago at the bank that I don't even remember hosting and someone happened to be there and now works somewhere else and brings me in. A lot of word of mouth recommendations from a coach in. The only real marketing I do in truth, there's probably three things. The first one is I write a blog every week, which is published on my website, mattdavisleadership.com. and then shared on social media. That's one thing. And that's really designed, firstly, because I enjoy doing it. It's quite a nice sort of thought leadership exercise for me. But I like, the reason I do it is because it means that I've got a steady kind of stream of content that I know every week there'll be something for me going on LinkedIn. People will get to see it. It keeps you in their eyeline. And then, you know, you write something, you post it, and I'm sitting there thinking, I really need an exec coach. And then an article from Reggie comes up and I think, oh, Reggie can help me with that. You know, so it keeps me in the know. Keeps you in people's eye line. The other thing is just using LinkedIn to make sure that every month I add a handful of new people who are in positions that could bring me into organizations. So one of the things I found when I really started thinking about this was I had loads of coaches and trainers and facilitators on LinkedIn. Now, coaches and trainers and facilitators are not looking to bring in a coach, trainer, facilitator. You know, it's like we're kind of doing the same thing. So we don't have that overlap. Now, sometimes it's useful to partner and to collaborate and work together. But really what I recognized was I need people on there seeing my content and hearing my stories who are in a position to bring me into businesses. So, you know, I started working on slowly but surely building a bigger network of heads of people, directors of HR, L&D leaders, all of those kind of things, CEOs of businesses, all that kind of stuff. So that's the second thing.

Rexhen Doda:

And

Matthew Davies:

then the third thing is just having conversations. I recognize that my business is just me as it stands. And so the biggest piece of advertising that I have is myself and the relationships I build. So everywhere I go, in fact, just before this, I had a call with a lady from Long Island. And the lady from Long Island works delivering, she does exec coaching, but she does a lot of Hogan profiling. And that's a big part of what she does. And she and I met when me and my daughter were on a train to York for a holiday earlier this year for a couple of days. And she was over visiting her son who lives in London, traveled up to Scotland, and we got chatting. And it's amazing how often things like that happen to me. I just happen to speak to someone. I find out what they do. They find out what I do. We build a connection. And, you know, sometimes that leads nowhere other than great conversations. And bizarrely, she had family who had come from the tiny little village that I grew up in, which is a really strange connection. But sometimes it leads to something. Sometimes it leads to a piece of work or a connection or an introduction. And one of the things I always encourage people to do is when I'm having a conversation with someone, once they know who I am and where I'm trying to get to and what I do, I always ask the question, based on everything you know about me, who would it be useful for me to speak to? And they'll put you in touch with the next person and they'll put you in touch with the next person. Before you know it, you know,

Rexhen Doda:

magic happens. Interesting. I like that you're also making sure that you let them know like you just ask because asking, there's no problem with asking. It's just like always ask and make sure that you utilize all of these meetings with people even randomly. And even if it's just a conversation doesn't turn into anything. It's still good, right? Nothing wrong with that.

Matthew Davies:

I love conversation. I love meeting interesting people. I love finding out their stories. And that's one of the reasons why I love coaching, you know, because there's a lot of listening and learning. But the big thing for me is in all these years, I've never done a hard sell on anyone. You know, like I don't feel like I should need to. I feel like my offering should speak for itself. And if I need to force someone to bring me into the organization, they're probably not ready for it. They're That's going to make for a difficult environment and probably an unpleasant working experience, you know. And so I'm really a believer that in the same way as, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher will emerge. I feel like when the client is ready, the coach will be there, you know, and that's the way I do it is build relationships, make sure I'm visible and I'm staying in contact with people. And when they have a need, I'm there to fulfill it.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And also maybe sometimes even if they want to work with you, sometimes it's just like some clients or some potential clients might not be the right fit. Absolutely. might be a good idea just to like have the relationship stop there because it just like might be a waste of time for both ends

Matthew Davies:

that's absolutely the case and I think that's why chemistry meetings and coaching are so important every coach every client I've ever worked with and this goes back to even when I first started on my own and listen let's be honest you know as coaches when you start your own business if you start your own business as a bricklayer if you start your own business as a window cleaner there's always that thing of like I've got to keep the lights on here like I've got to generate some income to make this business viable to feed my daughter and keep the roof over our heads. So there is kind of a thing like, oh, I really hope that this turns into something. But I've always kind of had those chemistry meetings and said in the chemistry meetings, go out and meet a couple other coaches, speak to them, do a chemistry meeting with them and pick the one that you really connect with. Pick the one that you really find that connection with. And I had a new client I started with last week and we sat down and he said, you know, Matt, I don't know if you've been told this in the feedback, but one of the things I want to say was that I met with four or five other coaches and I picked you because you asked the best questions. Now, first, that's a beautiful thing to hear, right? Because as a coach, you kind of prize yourself on the questions you ask. But also, what he's really saying there is you asked the best questions for me at this stage of my life. Like, we were a good fit for where he is right now. Ten years earlier, ten years later, in a different challenge, in a different job, there might have been another coach that was better suited to him. And it's about making sure you give yourself the opportunity to make those connections so that you and have those conversations and see where they go.

Rexhen Doda:

Absolutely, absolutely. Right now, when you think about the business, where is it going? Like, do you have any specific goals you're working towards for the next, let's say, one to three years or short to midterm?

Matthew Davies:

My goals are interesting as a business owner because I have a nine-year-old daughter who is the light of my life and I have a wife and I... is that the time I have with my daughter while she still, A, thinks dad is cool and B, is still living at home and kind of wants to hang out with me is short. And I want to make the most of that. So my focus right now is on a few things. It's on a business that's got sustainable, direct work so that I'm not so reliant on associate work as I have been historically. At the start of my career as a kind of entrepreneur, there was a lot of associate work, which is great and I'm really thankful for it. But the nature of that is I'm very reliant for a big portion of my income on one client effectively. If that client has changes or loses a contract with somebody, then potentially all of my income is gone. So it's building sustainable relationships direct to the client is one thing. But the other thing is enjoy myself. Like I want to spend time with my daughter. Next to me, I have a pile of maps, right? Because I like hill walking. I like going out. I like exploring. And so I make sure that I have enough time built into my day where I can do meaningful work work with clients I really care about and do things I enjoy and spend the rest of it wandering about the hills with my dog and hanging out with my daughter. That's my thing. And I think one of the interesting things is when I first started, I had a really good first year. My first full year, 2022, was really lucrative. It was my most successful financial year as far as a calendar year went. Part of me was like, oh, Jesus is flying here. I'm cooking on gas. I could be rich doing this. And I stopped and reflected and I was like, Why would I want to be rich? Like what would be the cost of that to me? Because my business is just me. So if I'm making shed loads of money, one of two things is happening. Either I've ramped my prices way up or I'm really, really been doing a lot of volume. Now doing a lot of volume as a coach, as I'm sure, you know, many of your listeners will, it's not always the right thing to do. You know, I need to make sure the quality of those coaching sessions is right. And I have been in situations in the past where I've probably tried to squeeze one extra coaching session a day in and the quality suffers. And the, the, the, The price thing is great. And that's something that I think we all hope to do over time. But really, you know, I have a good life. You know, I'm not somebody that has an awful lot that I want for in the world. I'm not someone that's particularly driven by fancy cars and big houses and stuff. I'm driven by building community, by contributing to where I live, by the quality of life I have. So really, that's the big thing. And the other challenge I've got, and this is probably one of the things I add on the most is, as I've kind of said, there's a force of personality aspect that comes into what we do. and the challenge is if I was to bring in bigger clients that required maybe a cohort of coaches working on it the challenge is do those clients all want to work with you is that how you've managed to secure them in the first place so I need to think about my strategy longer term in terms of how do I build some bigger contracts where I can bring in a kind of cadre of coaches as associates that we can kind of divvy up and do it that way that's probably where I see it going in terms of growth where I'm maybe not necessarily employing other people but I'm an associate organization myself in order in order to build what I offer but it is that balance of if I offer people me and they come in and I say now you're getting coached by Bob does that weaken the relationship so I need to think about how I do that

Rexhen Doda:

interesting interesting yeah I've seen so when it comes to one-on-one coaching especially this is a kind of like a when you're thinking of scaling is you'd have to get other coaches in the team to either work as contractors with you or just like be part of the team full-time but But I feel like the part where some people might expect to work with you is is not always the problem uh it's just like finding that right person who can still deliver as much value as absolutely yeah

Matthew Davies:

and that's one of the things i'm very blessed with that i have some people in my network who are absolutely phenomenal coaches you know really like people that i've worked with directly people i've studied with as well you know that's like investing in myself since i left the bank has been one of the best benefits of having my own company you know if you work for a big corporate there's always an element of they'll invest in you to develop in the ways that they need you to develop in order to do the things that they're trying to achieve. Whereas when you have your own company, I can spend money on my own develop in whatever direction I'm passionate about. And that's a really lovely thing. And so, you know, I've done a lot of study since I left and I've met some wonderful coaches there. So I know that if I grow it, I can do that. And I think how I see it going is getting programs where, for example, an organization has a 50 people that they're putting through a leadership development program that I might help to design and facilitate and as part of that we offer coaching and I don't coach all 50 of them myself I bring people in and we take a few each and that gives them an opportunity then to even say you know I'll meet a few coaches and pick the one I like and that kind of works with you mentioned I'm on the Manchester Metropolitan University their Masters of Sports Directorship the MSD program which is a fantastic program for people looking to become directors of organizations effectively and they do exactly that so I am one of the coaches on the panel they get to meet people Reggie and you've got an allocation of coaching time go and meet these coaches have a look at their profiles meet a few of them pick one and then get on with it and that gives people the opportunity to still find that the right fit for them but kind of in house you know

Rexhen Doda:

absolutely so the other thing I wanted to ask you is more on investments and this goes back to the research I will collect what have been some good investments that you've made here on coaching business could be investments in yourself could be investments in the business like coaching programs masterminds communities could be anything really that you feel like that was a good investment Yeah,

Matthew Davies:

I think the best investment in myself that I've made are probably a couple of coaching courses that I've been on. One is I've just finished, I had my assessment day last Monday with the Academy of Executive Coaching, the AOEC. So a lot of my exec coaching study has been through them. I did a coaching skills certificate and then I did my practitioner diploma and now I've done my professional practitioner diploma. And I did a short course on team coaching with them. So they're an organization I've got really good connections with and it's been fantastic. not just for the quality of the faculty which is really like really good but also like i say the people that i met on it you know they're kind of delegates that's been great and the other course that i went on that was excellent was a month um court quote nine month course on team board and systemic coaching with henley business school i did that a couple years back and again you know the faculty was world class the people i met were wonderful and those have been great so in terms of investments in myself those have been the best two by far and I would recommend them to others. I have been thinking just today, actually, when I was out walking the dog, what's my next move in terms of my growth and development? I attained my ICF PCC back in the spring. And so while I'm not in a hurry to get there, naturally my next goal is going to be on that MCC and what are the steps I might need to be taking now to get there. But equally, and this is really more important for me, is what are the things that are really going to fire me up, that I'm really going to learn from, that I'm going to be engaged with, that I'm going to fall in love with? So that's you know, that's an interesting question and having the luxury to be able to finance it through your business is a beautiful

Rexhen Doda:

thing. Absolutely. And so just out of my curiosity, because I always want to learn about this and based on our previous research last year, the thing about certification is that when it comes to, when we think about it as an investment and the amount of return on that investment is generally has been not the strongest investment. So I'm thinking like, where do you see the value in getting a higher certification for So that is an

Matthew Davies:

excellent question. I'm very glad you asked. And I have a love-hate relationship with this stuff. In fact, I'll tell you a really interesting, I'm reading this book just now called The Wise Team Coach by Paul Lawrence. And one of the things that Paul Lawrence talks about, and it's a really, really good, this is like, it's just full of highlighting, is he talks about the whole process for accreditation and the fact that, you know, a lot of people, a lot of really high-level people, coaches that he knows kind of openly admit to him you know including MCC coaches they openly admit to him that what they submit and the work that they record and submit are not really reflective of what their coaching sessions look like day to day and I think it is quite performative the whole assessment kind of criteria and I think that you know I also think that some of these organizations can be quite guilty of being very dogmatic about what coaching means you know like coaching has a very narrow definition in their kind of frameworks and so for that reason I am a little bit skeptical and I'm not someone who chases the paper but I also recognize that with some of the work I do particularly some of the associate work I do those organizations look for people to have a certain level of accreditation and I know that if I'm able to continue moving up I'm ultimately able to continue working with a more senior and group of clients perhaps and commanding higher fees and that aspect of it is quite important and I think the accreditation for me is really more about feeling like I'm progressing I need to feel like I'm making progress in a certain direction and I quite like accreditation for that but also I think there's something there about showing the and by the world I mean you know the kind of world of potential coaching clients that I really take what I do seriously you know and I think for me one of the reasons that's quite important is because I am someone that I've spoken about this earlier on but You know, I do everything with a lot of joy, with a lot of humor. And I think sometimes what that does is it gives people an impression you just don't take things that seriously. I take what I do professionally incredibly seriously. I just don't take myself too seriously. And I think to show people that, you know, my kind of work towards certain levels of accreditation is quite important. But you're absolutely right. I mean, if you think of the money that I spend in reaccrediting and being a member of, for example, the ICF, do I see a direct return on that? Probably not to the same extent. Because the truth is that when you're working with clients who are coming directly to you, it's different if you're working through an associate firm or even through an organization where they have to bring you in through the procurement department, that if a person on the street comes to me as a coach, they don't know anything about the accreditation process.

Rexhen Doda:

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Davies:

they couldn't care less if you're accredited by McDonald's. Like they're just not that interesting. You either add value to them or you don't. And what piece of paper you've got on your wall doesn't really make a difference. So there are times when it can be beneficial and there are times when it just doesn't matter

Rexhen Doda:

at all. That's actually actually what we found. So for most coaches that we interviewed about on last year is there were mostly coaches that were, let's say maybe 15% of them were working with organizations and the rest of them were working with individuals. So people were coming to them. So for the ones that actually were working with organizations, some organization would require you to have certain certifications. Not that if you didn't have them, you're not qualified. It's just like sort of their requirements. You just don't get the door. Absolutely. Yeah, so it's like, yeah, it's in these cases where they actually start to make sense. And for those coaches, I feel like it would be a good investment. If you're thinking of only working with organizations, then yeah, you'd probably have to work on that. But if you're working... A great

Matthew Davies:

example for you, Reggie, is one of, if not the biggest employer in the UK is the NHS, the National Health Service, right? Our National Health Service is a great institution. They bring in coaches to work with, you know, their senior leaders. So you can go in, same deal, you can kind of put an application in, you do an interview if you're accepted you get added to the kind of faculty and then people have the option to choose from you if you don't have an ICF PCC or equivalent can't get in the door that simple And to be honest, with an organization like that, that is a potential source of quite a lot of work, they do need some way of, you know, kind of like sifting between, you know, the applications that they get, I suspect. And so it does make sense for them to have that. It's almost like we're trusting that the ICF or the EMCC or the AC have a level of quality control that means that if you've got this level of qualification, you're a decent coach, you know. And I also think there's something there about the coaching marketplace is becoming ever more crowded, you know. I feel like every time I go on and there's Part of that thing of when you buy a red car, everybody's got a red car because you're more attuned to it. But I noticed more and more and more people becoming coaches. And so the question is, how do you separate yourself in a crowded marketplace? And it can be handy for that. But like you say, you know, if you're working direct with clients, the majority of them, they wouldn't know what the ICF were.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah, absolutely. And I also wanted to ask you when it comes to your business and your goals, what is a challenge right now for you? Is there any bottleneck that is kind of like slowing it down or do you see any challenge in your coaching business?

Matthew Davies:

I think the stuff we've spoken about is probably the biggest thing about how do I grow the organization whilst still being able to offer a certain standard and quality and approach. Like I'm doing a piece of work at the moment with an existing client that I've done. This isn't a coaching thing. It's a kind of training delivery thing, but there will be a coaching element to it. And they approached me about something that they wanted to design and build. And I was like, that's not exactly in my wheelhouse, but I know a guy who could help. So we'll get together and we'll build it and deliver it together. And so finding ways like that has proven to be useful to expand what I do and offer and how I do it, but without it being a case that I necessarily have to do it all. So that is probably the thing, is the growth aspect. Because the truth, there's also something there about it's not quite passive income, but let's just say an organisation has... coaches or 50 clients that they want coached and I'm not able to do them all but I can take on the contract bring in the coaches do the admin we deliver that and and effectively by being an associate firm I take a small cut from every coaching session that happens that's kind of in the realms of passive income I'm being paid for coaching sessions I'm not having to deliver myself and I you know I always do it in such a way that made sure that the coaches were fairly paid for that because some associate firms take quite an aggressive cut but I you know that sort of thing would be quite nice because it means that I don't necessarily have to be the one doing all the work, but still generating the income. And I could still, you know, guarantee the quality by just bringing the people that I really, really want to trust. So those are some of the challenges and bottlenecks I'm facing. And it's really about how do I continue doing work I love with people I really, really kind of admire and care about? How do I open a work-life balance that I want? And how do I kind of continue to grow the business to sort of future-proof me, to make sure there's money there for periods of time? I don't do it in a way that means that I've I'm future-proofing my business so that if I have a period where the economy turns and people are no longer looking to invest and they're people in the same way, there's still money there to keep the lights on, you

Rexhen Doda:

know? Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for sharing that. To get this conversation closed as well, although I'm really enjoying it, I wanted to ask, what advice would you give to other coaches who are looking to scale their impact?

Matthew Davies:

Yeah, absolutely. So the two things I would call back to are things I've mentioned. The first one is continue investing in yourself. You know, like, Your business will only be as good as the service that it offers. And if you continue to grow and develop yourself as a coach, and that doesn't always need to be going on hugely expensive coaching retreats. It could be just the books you choose to read. It could be the people you surround yourself with, the mastermind groups you join, the podcasts you listen to, including this one. You know, all these sorts of things are, there's a lot of really, you know, kind of like not financially intensive ways of developing. So really invest in yourself and make sure that's part of what you do. And a big part of that for me is journaling as well. making sure I'm kind of having a strong reflective practice so that's the first thing and the second thing is just speak to everybody just speak to people make sure everybody around you and every walk of your life knows who you are and what you do and that doesn't mean you need to be going out there flyer and your friends and family to go and get business but make sure they know who you are and what you do and how you can help people because it may not be the case that you can help them or that they need you but they might know somebody who does I spoke to a coach yesterday and she was talking about She got off the train and she was walking back to her car and she happened to be walking side by side with this other person that just come off the same train. And naturally you're sort of walking in step with somebody, you strike up a conversation and said, by the time I got to the car, that person knew who I was. They had my business card. They knew what I did and they were racking their brains thinking, who can I put them in touch with that could benefit from the service? And that's really how we can build our businesses, you know, in a really authentic, organic, honest way where we meet people, we talk about who we are They get a feel for our energy and they can put us in touch with people that we can really help.

Rexhen Doda:

Thank you. Thank you so much, Matt. And thank you for coming to a podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you on the show. For anyone who wants to connect with you or reach out to you, they can go into LinkedIn and look Matt Davis. They will be able to find you there. Is there also a website they could go

Matthew Davies:

to? MattDavisLeadership.com. If they give that a look, that's a good place to find me. And obviously, you can contact me directly from there if anybody wants to get in touch and continue you the

Rexhen Doda:

conversation thank you thank you so much matt and uh yeah thank you for coming to the show and have a great day ahead i really appreciate it thanks for having me on

Davis Nguyen:

that's it for this episode of career coaching secrets if you enjoyed this conversation you can subscribe on youtube spotify apple podcast or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes this podcast was brought to you by purple circle where we help career coaches scale their business to a hundred thousand dollar years hundred thousand dollar months or even hundred thousand dollar weeks all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want To learn more about our community and how we can help you