Career Coaching Secrets

Beyond Burnout: Maki Moussavi on True Fulfillment for High Achievers

• Davis Nguyen

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On this episode of the Career Coaching Secrets podcast, host Rexhen Doda interviews Maki Moussavi, a mindset and identity coach. Maki shares her unique journey from a master's degree in genetic counseling and a 14-year corporate career in healthcare IT to becoming an entrepreneur and coach. She delves into the challenges and transformations of starting her own business, emphasizing the importance of discerning advice and avoiding the "hype" often found in the coaching industry. Maki distinguishes her work as self-actualization coaching, focusing on helping high-achievers explore their "why" and burn down outdated beliefs rather than just pursuing external achievements. Her primary clients are individuals aged 40 to 65 who are at a critical point of realizing current paths are unsustainable. Maki also discusses her effective client acquisition strategies, including speaking engagements, her book "The High Achievers Guide," and intentional networking based on authentic relationships. She reveals her future goal of coaching professional athletes through their identity shifts post-career, stressing the need for trusted connections and embracing uncertainty in the entrepreneurial journey. She candidly shares lessons learned about the realities of scaling and the challenges of fitting her message into corporate environments.

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Maki Moussavi:

The vast majority of my clients, and this is just, there are some outliers, of course, but most of them are between 40 and 65 years old. And the reason for that is really because there is a certain level and amount of experience you have to have in your work life and in your life in general, I think, to reach this realization that the things that have gotten you to where you are today aren't necessarily going to take you to where you want to be next. So there's kind of this critical map of just life experience that is necessary. But I do work with both men and women. And what I think is really wonderful about the work I get to do is that, you know, sometimes I'm working with people who are in their 60s who know that this next thing that they're seeking is probably going to be the last professional opportunity that they really are going to be engaged in before they decide to take a step back and do other things.

Davis Nguyen:

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Nguyen, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. Before Purple Circle, I started and scaled several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and consulted with two career coaching businesses that are now doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or just building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Rexhen Doda:

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Career Coach Secrets Podcast. I'm your host, Rexhen, and today's guest is Maki Musabe. Maki is a mindset and identity coach. She's a truth teller, a paradigm shifter, and she helps high achievers stop performance and start living by burning down the outdated beliefs that keep them stuck. She's not here to sell you a shinier version of burnout. She's here to guide you towards a life built on truth, fulfillment, and unapologetic authenticity. It's my pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Well, Welcome to the show, Mackie.

Maki Moussavi:

Thanks. Thanks so much for having me.

Rexhen Doda:

Mackie, tell me a little bit more about what inspired you to become a mindset coach.

Maki Moussavi:

Well, my journey actually started out that I got a degree in a master's degree in genetic counseling, which is a kind of an obscure field, but is... patient oriented, you know, somebody who meets with patients who are having a lot of questions about their future, their genetic health, whether family members will be impacted. And it's kind of a form of crisis counseling, because usually when people come to you for that, they're afraid of the information that may be revealed. So I actually took that degree and used it in a different way, and worked in the corporate world for about 14 years in healthcare IT. And But the piece of me that always loved advising and coaching people and working with people on things that they were working through, for lack of a better term, stayed with me my entire corporate career. When I was getting ready to shift out of that life, for a lot of the reasons that we will talk about today, I'm sure, it was very clear to me that I had uncovered some things about the way that I had been pursuing success that I knew other people were struggling with as well. At that point, I discovered that the best way to take that work and do something of value for others is to become a coach. It was never my intention to be an entrepreneur, but that's where the path led me. And because of my background that was already so strong in working with others, I felt very confident in making that leap.

Rexhen Doda:

And now it's been about eight years that

Maki Moussavi:

you've been

Rexhen Doda:

doing it? Wow. How does that look like your journey, like once you started your business to where you are at today?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, it's a twisty road. You know, I always say that I'm glad nobody really told me what this would be like, because I'm not sure I would have done it if somebody had told me, but I don't regret any of it. You know, it's been a really, I always say the most intense personal development journey you can be on is starting your own business. And I stand by that for sure. I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot about what works, what doesn't work. It's a highly rewarding, you know, so fulfilling, especially compared to where I started from and where I think a lot of people struggle inside of traditional structures, working for other people. And I think one of the things I've learned that is so incredibly important is just that there's always going to be a lot of noise and a lot of advice and a lot of well conditioning for lack of a better term around what it's supposed to look like to be successful as a coach or in whatever industry you're in. And you have to be very highly aware of those things. You know, as a mindset coach, that's incredibly important to me. You can get led down paths that aren't necessarily going to work well for you because someone's telling you this is what you do. And when you don't know any better, you know, you go down a lot of paths to see, is this going to work or you go into it thinking it will. And I will say that A huge piece of this journey for me has been learning as much what isn't going to work as what will work and being willing to go through that process has been very transformative.

Rexhen Doda:

And how does the industry in a way look like recent years compared to when you got started?

Maki Moussavi:

That's a good question. You know, I think the thing that is... Disconcerting. So for someone like me, who's very type A and achievement oriented, who always thought I wanted to be in a corporate structure that would give me the stability and the security that being in a structure like that gives you. One of the things I had to work through very diligently was just the way that I had been conditioned to think about success. You know, it's really like being programmed, just like a computer. You know, you do these things, you follow these formulas, you get these rewards. And the promise that's inherent in all of that is that the reward ultimately will be that you will feel fulfilled, which for me was not at all the case. And I don't think it's the case for a lot of people. What happens when you make the transition to the entrepreneurial space, I know for myself, I didn't realize how much of that same conditioning is a part of being your own business owner as well and a lot of people go into coaching I feel like because maybe they benefited from a coach or there was someone along their way that helped them and then they think oh I could do this I don't want to be where I am anymore and coaching seems really accessible to me without necessarily thinking that piece through very thoroughly and for that reason You know, there's so many different certification programs that people can enter to get a coaching certification. But I would say that there's a lot of really not good coaches out there, a lot that really aren't great, that aren't good at what they do, that are in it because they can turn a profit. And that part is very... I think still an issue. I still think that there is a lot of saturation in the coaching market. And of course, there's so many different ways that you can coach a person, all of which have value. There's people who need early coaching, early career coaching, people that need leadership coaching, people that are looking at executive coaching and beyond, right? I'm in a different category. I see myself more as a self-actualization coach, but But the challenge is that there are so many people in that market and a lot of them will make promises to you and charge big dollars. And I think people have a tendency to think that people who are doing that are the people who are really good. And it's not always the case. So you've got to have a way to kind of tease through the noise of first how you want to be recognized as a coach. What's going to be your differentiator? How are you being very deliberate about how you want to show up in the space that you're in? And then second, Really being sure that you're not following paths that others have laid out for you that you think you need to do in order to be successful, even if they don't feel aligned to you. And then as people who are seeking coaching, and I think this is important as coaches because we are also... always in a position to be coached by someone else who's further along the path. Those same concerns are there, right? Making sure that you pick somebody who is aligned with your future path, who isn't going to try to put you through a very formulaic approach. And I feel like a lot of the celebrity type coaches, that's their tendency, right? You're never going to have contact with that person directly. They're just running a program that has a lot of other coaches who are really doing that work one-on-one, and you may or may not get what's being promised to you. Those are the things that I believe are still very present in this industry because it is profitable. And so people often enter it because it's profitable. And that just makes it so that you have to be much more discerning about what you're looking at in order to make decisions about your personal path and also the path of where you engage somebody for your own purposes. Do

Rexhen Doda:

you feel like right now there's a low barrier to entry?

Maki Moussavi:

I

Rexhen Doda:

do. And

Maki Moussavi:

I would not say that I feel like there's an easy way to fix that problem, right? I mean, there are lots of people who are very capable of providing tremendous value to others. I think the challenge is that the credentials are not always the surest indicator, right? And I think one way to think about that is when you go to a doctor, you know, Any given doctor you go to will have gone through the rigor of having to go to medical school, being board certified, having the practice hours. And yet we all know that some doctors are very good at what they do and some are not. They just, they're not good at all. And the only way you're going to know that is by being discerning and paying attention to those things that matter to you, because it goes beyond just, did you finish a program? You know, and, and what are you charging? There's a lot of substance that's not always easy to sort through in the middle. So I don't really know what the right answer is. I do think that one of the answers is for people to be very, very deliberate when they're entering the coaching space to know what value it is they're hoping to bring there and to not do it because it feels like an easy stepping stone out of whatever current employment opportunity they're in.

Rexhen Doda:

How are you currently setting yourself apart from like the others or a sea full of fish in a way? Yeah. Who do you work with and what transformation do you have to achieve?

Maki Moussavi:

Well, you know, for a long time, I worked with people who were similar to me, people who were in the corporate space, feeling stuck, feeling very entrenched in the conditioning around what it means to be successful. And those people, a lot of those people are still my clients. However, there is a lot of fear involved with the kind of coaching that I do, because we do a lot of what's, you know, a lot of people understand now is shadow work, right? We're looking at the fear, the things about yourself you're afraid aren't flattering, the pieces of yourself that you try to hide because if people saw them, you would be rejected in some way. Perhaps you wouldn't get the promotion, wouldn't be offered a job. You wouldn't have that friendship circle anymore. And I do that deeper layer of work. I'm comfortable doing that work because of my clinical training and genetic counseling. It's not necessarily something that everybody wants to do. I know a lot of people don't want to touch that. They'd rather send their clients somewhere else for that. But my ideal client is really just someone who understands that where they are isn't sustainable to them. And they're seeking something more fulfilling, something more deeper and more authentic. And the amount of deprogramming and deconditioning that has to happen for that to occur is the sort of mindset coaching that I do. So I'm very transparent about that. And people do understand, oh, it's not just... career coaching or executive coaching, those areas have a tremendous amount of value. I am not in any way, shape, or form judging that. But if somebody's primary concern is that they're looking to get a promotion to the next level, that's not the work I do. My first question to those folks when they come to me is, why do you want that? And we're going to get into that question more than we're going to get on the path of just setting them up to get the tangible outcome. It's more about exploring the intangibles of your experience and what's going to make it richer.

Rexhen Doda:

It's like exploring the why, not the how.

Maki Moussavi:

Exactly. And making sure that because we are so conditioned and we do often think when you're seeking something, maybe what I really need is to be at the next level of my job. Maybe what I really need is this validation. What you're really seeking is not going to be granted to you by achieving that position, right? Those people tend to be seeking the thing they think is going to provide the feeling. And when they arrive there, they realize it's not going to provide that feeling. And so they end up going right back into the mode of what's next. What's the next goal that I need to set? Because it's goals that they're reaching don't have enough depth to them. And so my work is about, do you really want that? If you really want it, we can get clear on that and then talk about what it's going to take for you. But that still isn't necessarily through the lens of just the how of checking the boxes for the external reward. It's about ensuring that your journey is very aligned along the way and to achieve that goal in a way that feels like you're not overly compromising on what matters most to you. Thank

Rexhen Doda:

you for sharing that. And do you find that often there's a specific demographic that you're reaching either by accident or just happens that way?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, great question. Yes, I do. I mean, the vast majority of my clients, and this is just, there are some outliers, of course, but most of them are between 40 and 65 years old. And the reason for that is really because there is a certain level of an amount of experience you've had to have in your work life and in your life in general, I think, to reach this realization that the things that have gotten you to where you are today aren't necessarily going to take you to where you want to be next. So there's kind of this critical mass of just life experience that is necessary. But I do work with both men and women. And what I think is really wonderful about the work I get to do is that, you know, sometimes I'm working with people who are in their 60s who know that this next thing that they're seeking is probably going to be the last professional opportunity that they really are going to be engaged in before they decide to take a step back and do other things. So I do think you have to get to this critical point of just having enough experience. And I will also say that I think a lot of people when they get to their early 40s, you know, we make jokes about midlife crises and the fact that that happens to people. But I think what really happens to people in midlife is they start to wake up to what doesn't really work for them anymore, that they've just kind of put their head down to get the results. And they're starting to see, I don't know if I really want to have to do all of this anymore, jump through these hoops, play this game, meet those expectations. And it's at that critical point of recognition that, you know, I don't really think this is working for me anymore. that people are signaling and it's showing up for them. I think I'm ready to really shift things in a different way.

Rexhen Doda:

And where are people finding you usually? When it comes to lead generation, how do people, and maybe lead generation seems like ugly right now, but where do people find you?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, that's a good question. I would say early when I first began My network was my corporate network, and I really needed to expand. So one of the first and most important things I did was I started speaking. And I was just speaking to local groups, professional organizations, networking organizations, getting my message out there. And, you know, especially in the early days, I wasn't being paid for that. But that was such a good way. I can still think back to my very first speaking engagement and how many different threads of opportunities came from that. And So I did that for pretty intensely for the first couple of years. And then, of course, you know, I upped my game a little, started charging to speak and things of that nature. But that was very key for me. I also have a book called The High Achievers Guide that came out in late 2019 that I wrote not to be a lead generating book. piece of content, but to more be a value provision to people I would never meet, you know, hey, even if I never meet you, I never see you in person, you have no idea who I am. Here's this content about people who are built like this type A high achieving people who are very ambitious. but that are also recognizing that ambition isn't deeply fulfilling to them. And what's the process you can go through? And I have had some people who have reached out to me after they've read the book to say like, hey, do you work with people? Or can you do this book club meeting for a group of physicians or whatever? That lets me kind of get in at this deeper level of conversation that isn't as simple as social media posts, for instance. And then what I have found works well for me is... honestly networking and being very intentional about who I network with and not having an agenda in that networking conversation to just really genuinely be relational, want to get to know somebody and to have those authentic interactions. And if that person has curiosity about what I do to ask those questions, the vast majority of my clients have come through interaction with me in some way, whether it's reading my words, seeing me speak, or hearing about me from someone that they trust. Those have been the avenues that have worked best for me with the type of coaching that I do.

Rexhen Doda:

When you say networking, how does that look like? Do you expand a little bit now?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah. So one of the things that I have, well, one of the things I did before I left to become a coach was just to say, one of my intentions, I said an intention is to get to know people who are going to be more aligned with my next chapter of life versus where I am now. And so if I thought if somebody came to mind or if somebody was suggested to me, you should meet with so-and-so I would follow that thread. You know, I call it following the breadcrumbs. I will meet with that person. Um, will have a good conversation. And often in highly aligned conversations, those are people who are introducing you to other people. And so I would say it's that kind of going with the flow of not doing the things that feel like you're meeting a lot of resistance, but where somebody is saying, I want to connect you, you should meet this person. I have a person who is looking for speakers, you know, just being open to how the connections come in. Then as I went through that process, I was able to see with more and more clarity, oh, the people that I really enjoy networking with have these characteristics. And then being able to refine for someone, if you're going to introduce me to somebody, could you please keep these things in mind. These are going to be the highly aligned introductions for me. And so continuing to get more and more clarity around who that needs to look like was something that I was very deliberate and intentional about because obviously you could spend a lot of time networking and it's not meaningful. And I was certainly doing some of that, but have learned to be discerning and to say, I, you know, that's not for me. And to trust my instinct that, that It's not going to be an aligned investment of time versus when I feel either neutral or positive about, yeah, let's just go ahead and do that.

Rexhen Doda:

Mm-hmm. And so these are kind of a few of the ways that people find you. And then when they find you, they generally would say, go to your website or try to contact you and then would speak with you and then get in touch with you. And then eventually, if they're a good fit, they would be your client. And cool, that all makes sense. And thanks for sharing that. That's very detailed. And when it comes to the book itself, has there been any strategy when it comes to promoting the book or are you just out there? Good

Maki Moussavi:

question. So definitely learned a lot about that from the things I did not do well. So I can be transparent about that too. I really didn't know. much about book marketing when I started this journey. And for that reason, I decided I did not self-publish. I found a publisher. I knew that there was going to be so much I didn't know, didn't understand, that I didn't necessarily want to have to wrap my mind around. And therefore, I pursued a path that got me to an independent publisher and published my book that way. Now, there were some things they were great about sharing around, here's the things you should do. I still think a lot of that advice is geared toward people who have some sort of following or recognition as an author already. So I've learned in hindsight, there's some things that I really could have done around priming the algorithm Amazon algorithm to be more helpful, trying to reach the attention of getting kind of scooped up into that algorithm and going forward. And then a couple of years after I published my book with that publisher, another publisher bought my book from them. And so I have had more conversations with them around like, you know, how do you do this? And they feel very pragmatic and practical around their approach. I think the reality is that publishing is kind of like coaching. It's a You know, it's not like back in the day where the big publishers were kind of the gatekeepers of getting books onto shelves. People can self-publish now. There's so many different avenues. There's so many books out there. It's very difficult to differentiate yourself. So yes, I'm still learning every day. Like there's ways to do this actively. And there's also just ways that are probably not going to be great. You know, I hired a public firm early on and it really didn't do anything for me. And the feedback I've heard from publishers since then is, yeah, that's kind of hit or miss. Like it's not really a worthy investment necessarily. And so what I just do is try to promote it when I speak. You know, I have experimented with having my own podcast and having my own YouTube channel. And so I've shared it in those places. I've got other people who share it with people. So, you know, that's kind of one of those things that I did it and I put it into the universe and we'll just let it have a life and see where it goes.

Rexhen Doda:

Cool. And yeah, we want to make sure that we also will link this to our description so that people can find the book. And if they want to take a read them, they'll be, they'll have a link to it. And yeah, you can send that to me. I was trying to find on Google, but yeah.

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah.

Rexhen Doda:

Cool. So when it comes to like moving a little bit away from marketing, in the future, do you have any goals that you're working towards with your coaching business for the next three years?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, absolutely. One of the areas that I'm really interested in expanding into is actually working with professional athletes. I am really intrigued and have been for years by the idea of working with people who have a lot of rigor and discipline around working with coaches, you know, for other sports, but there is this massive transition that happens when people leave the professional athletic space to, you know, start a life that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being known for that thing that you've been known for for so long. There's a real identity shift that happens there. And one of the things that can happen is, you know, I, I, How do you assign your value to what you're bringing to the world when it's not about being recognized and being celebrated for your achievements in this very specific arena? That's an area I'd really like to explore. And I also have the, the groundedness to understand, like, that's not just a thing where you stick your shingle out and say, Hey, I'm here to coach athletes transitioning out of their sport, because these are people that everybody is always trying to get a piece of, right? And you're gonna need a warm connection, a trusted middle person to broker that in order to be successful. I always want that to be something that happens from a place of trust. So I'm in the process of sharing that and talking about it and have made the updates to my online presence, especially on my website and will do what I need to do to plant those seeds, you know, going forward and to see where that takes me. And I will say that that's one thing I think is incredibly important for people who are on this journey is trying to become more much more comfortable with uncertainty. There is a lot of uncertainty in the entrepreneurial game and in the coaching space. And having goals and visions for your life going forward is incredibly important, but also being open to the fact that it may not look how you think it's going to look from where you sit today is of critical importance. You will only limit yourself if you are not able to do that. I try to focus on that visionary piece that's like, what would that be like? How would that feel? You know, what would be cool about it? And then to be somewhat detached from whether it happens or not, because if it happens, there's alignment there and that's great, but we can be overly focused in our culture on manifestation and not give enough space for surrender so that things that come in when they're aligned will come in. And when they're not aligned for them to not work out and to trust the process around that.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah, and as we're saying that, we're explaining not leaving space for surrender. I was just thinking of a book I was reading recently when it comes to the power of your subconscious mind and trying to trigger your conscious so that your subconscious works according to that. And in a way, kind of like trying to trick your brain into not surrendering in a way or not leaving space for it.

Maki Moussavi:

Right, right.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah. Yeah. So when it comes to your business so far, eight years, have there been any investments that you feel like have actually made a difference in you growing your business, either on investments on yourself or investments in any, I don't know, communities, coaching programs or masterminds?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I would say the biggest and most positive investment I have made is in building those personal relationships with people in a very transparent and authentic way. I have not, I did my initial coaching investment in myself when I was getting ready to leave my corporate job was the most important investment I made in myself from a coaching perspective. That was what allowed me to make the move that I made and to be where I am today today. As I mentioned earlier, I've invested a lot of money in coaching programs and coaches and publicity and a lot of things. And I honestly have to say, not a single one of those things stands out as worth the investment. So I would say that's where that discernment comes in. And I think it is a part of the journey to experiment. And sometimes you will make investments that aren't necessarily, you know, don't yield what you hope they will. And that's okay. That's okay, too. That's just part of the journey. But in terms of... that investment of time and energy. It's been that willingness to look at what I know will work for me, what feels aligned for me and the people that I know are going to be supportive of me and putting my time and energy in those spaces that have been by far the most valuable return that I have received for myself and my business.

Rexhen Doda:

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And you also mentioned this at the beginning that, Had someone shared with you how this journey was going to look like, you probably wouldn't have chosen it. What is something that you wish you had known when you first started scaling your coaching business, like an unexpected lesson learned or unexpected?

Maki Moussavi:

Yes, absolutely. One of the biggest lessons I learned early on was try not to buy into the hype. of what being on your own in your own business can look like. I think there's so much emphasis in the entrepreneurial space on being a six and seven figure earner and scaling and propagating what you do and training other people. And that's not that that's inherently bad, but there is not enough attention paid on the fact that just staying in the entrepreneurial game for any length of time is a feat. You know, most people don't make it on their entrepreneurial journey and maybe especially not with their first attempt. So try not to buy into the hype around what you, that was for me, I think a challenge, you know, there was so much hype around like, oh, you can do all these things. And, you know, if you differentiate yourself and you bring value, you're just naturally like, you know, money's going to come flowing to you. And that hasn't been my experience. And it hasn't been the experience of a lot of people that I know who have been entrepreneurs, because I obviously have many more entrepreneurs now in my network than I did previously. And that's not to say it's not valuable, but I do think that realism is kind of hard to come by in the world where there's a lot of hype around what's possible. So that was a valuable lesson for me to learn and to see like, hey, you know what? All of this takes longer than you think it's going to take. and it is not always going to go the way you think it's going to go and there is some there's a lot of instability and uncertainty at the beginning and you're going to plant far more seeds than you're going to harvest. And that's just the nature of this work. It's not to say it's not valuable. And sometimes you will find aligned opportunities in the way, you know, you mentioned lead generation and that works really well for some people. I think it kind of depends on the niche that you're in and who you're trying to reach and who's paying for that. What I have found is I've tried to scale. So, you know, I've, I've, um, designed and held workshops very successfully, you know, that get great reviews and that I thought, hey, I could do this for companies. Like it would be so much easier to offer this as a retreat or a workshop to somebody that wants to pay for a team to go through it. And the reality is that for the type of work I do, companies aren't comfortable with my message. They think people are going to take it and they're going to decide to leave. their position, rather than having that curiosity about how could we improve our culture. And so that has not been an avenue for me. And I think it's that, you know, I just was recently talking to a coach who's earlier in his journey, who was saying, you know, I'm really looking at scaling and how to work with groups. And as we talked, he said, you know, it's such a relief. to talk to someone who is telling me like, I may not be able to make that work because he said, I don't even really know if I want that to work. It doesn't feel right to me, but there is that pressure and that messaging around do it like this. And just sometimes that's just not good advice because you're an individual and what works for a lot of people isn't necessarily going to work for you individually with what you know, feels in alignment and integrity.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel like there's a lot of noise and hype around what you should do and like all of these lead generation tactics that are there that you can go after. And I feel like as someone with a marketing background, that is something that has been growing recently more than ever. And yeah, it's not always going to work for everyone. So Being aware of that is very important. What would you say is right now the biggest challenge that you're facing in growing your coaching business? Obviously, you're looking to grow in a way focusing on professional athletes, etc. What would you say is that bottleneck that's currently stopping you from getting there?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, I would say it's that, you know, not necessarily having to start all the way over, but going back into that seed planting mode of, you know, I'm going to I'm going to share the message, I'm going to talk to people, I'm going to see what comes of that. And if there's another obvious step where someone says to me, you should go meet with someone or reach out to someone to do that, right. And just to see what comes of those opportunities and experiences. And in the meantime, you know, I've been in this long enough that I still get people reaching out and saying, hey, I was referred to you. Or somebody will come in and say, we have something going on in the fall. We'd like for you to be a presenter. I've reached the point where there's always some stuff that's coming in from all the work I've already done that that makes it much easier and better than it was when I first made the transition. But there's also still these periods of where things get quiet, especially when you're trying to make a change in what you're doing and who you're working with, where a natural void opens and that it won't stay a void for long. But there is that, okay, now we got to trust the process all over again and kind of go through that same period. So that's kind of the period that I'm in right now is around understanding that the corporate world that I was targeting for so long isn't really the right world. There are still people in the corporate world that are my ideal client, but the corporate world itself isn't going to open that door from a scalability perspective. And I've also recognized, I don't know that I want to be scalable. in that respect. Like, I really like my work with individuals. So what else can I do? Well, for me, speaking is an option, you know, that's a supplemental thing and that allows me to get in front of more people. I have transparently, a couple of years ago, started a YouTube channel and kind of left it behind, but I'm going back to it again because I'm really intrigued by the thought of building a community of like-minded people. So, you know, but now I'm kind of in that building slash rebuilding mode. And so there's going to be some quietness in that journey.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah. And at least you already have one niche that's working while you do that. It's almost like you're building a second business at this point.

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, kind of. Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

Rexhen Doda:

Is there any final advice you'd like to give to other mindset coaches or any coach that is trying to scale their impact?

Maki Moussavi:

Yeah, absolutely. My biggest piece of advice is let your intuition and your instinct be your guide. Many of us and many coaches are coming from other lines of work, very conditioned, again, to pursue success a certain way. And we tend to be very cerebral. And so we will try to use logic to overcome any kind of gut intuition we have around whether or not something is right for us. Let your intuition be your guide. Your brain is always going to want to take over and justify taking a certain step. And if you feel like you have to talk yourself into it or that you're trying to overcome an internal feeling you have in order to do that, don't do it. Let the intuition that that's not a thing for me be justification in and of itself without feeling the need to put a lot of rationalization around it.

Rexhen Doda:

Thank you. Thank you so much, Mackie. It's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. For anyone who wants to reach out to you or connect with you, they can go into your LinkedIn, Mackie Musavi. They can also find you on your website, mackiemusavi.com, which is M-A-C-K-I-M-O-U-S-S-A-V-I.com. For anyone who wants to find that, we'll also... potentially put it on the description as well, together with the book. So yeah, is there any other way people can reach out to you?

Maki Moussavi:

That's the best way by far. There's two ways. So yeah, sounds good.

Rexhen Doda:

Thank

Davis Nguyen:

you so much, Maggie.

Maki Moussavi:

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Davis Nguyen:

Thank you so much.